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18 October 2021, 05:57:35 PM

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Author Topic: Armored cars in the desert  (Read 1234 times)
michaelk
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Posts: 29


« on: 05 May 2021, 11:44:33 PM »

So I am wondering other folks thoughts  about armored cars being used in the game for something other than recce. I purchased a British armored car BN just machine guns and no anti tank guns. Found them kinda useless and lost almost the entire BN until I pulled them back behind an infantry line and used them as support during close assaults.


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kustenjaeger
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« Reply #1 on: 06 May 2021, 12:17:35 AM »

Brtish light armoured cars were intended to reconnoiter not fight.  Early war  armoured car regiment of 3 squadrons plus HQ would normally rotate troops (5/squadron each of 3 cars) to probe or act as roving patrols to spot enemy penetration.  Later on armament became a bit heavier (15mm Besa).  Some 11th Hussars armoured cars mounted captured Italian guns in an effort to beef up firepower.

So a battalion size formation of light armoured cars would not normally be very effective in combat and be a waste of resources (note 11th Hussars did score victories early in the desert against weak Italian opposition.

Edward
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michaelk
Cadet

Posts: 29


« Reply #2 on: 06 May 2021, 01:03:19 AM »

So the game reflects reality. (Smile) but yeah but I agree although using them to support an infantry line was kinda fun.


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toxicpixie
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« Reply #3 on: 06 May 2021, 09:37:43 AM »

Part of the issue with upgunning your recce is that they become a fighting arm not a recce arm - the Germans found this in the war, their best actual recce (arguably their only useful recce!) was done earlier on when they were lightly armed - once they start getting big, armoured, heavy guns vehicles in response to being needed as fighting troops more and more it became a vicious cycle of needing bigger guns, more armour, less suited to recce and more suited to a role as a fighting "firebrigade" or schwerepunkt (as they were often the only mobile units available).

That works great against opposition where you kind of don't need the anyone doing much recce, but when said opposition is competent it just leaves you blind and dancing to their tune...

Sadly a battalion of Commonwealth armoured cars is probably exceedingly hard work - but it gives you an excuse to expand the rest of the army and attach a Squadron of them to each battlegroup Wink
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Orcs
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« Reply #4 on: 06 May 2021, 12:46:36 PM »

In BKC2, you could pay 20 points less and not call them Recce, so you could have however many you wanted.

At Tring Club we have played several good games where "recce" forces of both sides clash. It gives a good game, particuarly in early war, where an A/T rifle becomes a viable weapon.
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Big Insect
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« Reply #5 on: 06 May 2021, 12:55:18 PM »

You can also field them as Recce Support in BKCIV - it means you buy them at same cost as if they are Recce, but they can 'drop' the Recce ability to fight as 'ordinary' A/C units in a specific game turn.

However, I'd echo the various points made earlier on about how ineffective they were historically. It was FoW that produced a strange 'super' list for the NZ AC Squadron that became such a hit for a while.
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toxicpixie
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« Reply #6 on: 06 May 2021, 01:20:36 PM »

Orcs, that's a really good scenario idea, IMO - you can play a very non-standard game, with aggressive "not"-recce duking it out with each other.

Given the nature of them, handbags and flailing at dawn should be fun Smiley
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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« Reply #7 on: 06 May 2021, 01:23:39 PM »

The early British stuff was basically pretty useless for combat, and rather too large to do recce. The Humbers and Damilers could look after themselves, with Dingos to do the stealthy stuff, would try to avoid combat and send reports.
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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toxicpixie
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« Reply #8 on: 06 May 2021, 02:24:15 PM »

The early stuff was very good for "colonial policing" though, as unpleasant as that is.

Like most of Britains gear, doctrine and training it was woeful compared to an even vaguely at peer adversary in high intensity conflict, and boy did it show.

That O'Connor and co. made it work against the Italians in 1940-41 is an amazing reflection of the years of work beforehand AND the Italians many many strategic and tactical awfulnesses Cheesy

I'm always amused by the late "Armoured Recce" regiments with proper battle tanks, as their recce potential was nil but paired up with the third battalion of the Infantry Brigade it gave four excellent combined arms combat teams of one armour battalion and one infantry battalion... I wonder how much of that was deliberate shenanigans to get four full armour units in a Division to get around some penny watching costings bloke saying "You've got three already! No more tanks!", and how much was just appropriating what was supposed to be doing Other Stuff...
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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« Reply #9 on: 06 May 2021, 03:04:40 PM »

That could well be. In the 44 fighting the armoured divs normally had an armoured car rgt under command. The poor infantry had Recce Rgts with that abortion of a vehicle the Humber Recce Car, or possible the Otter. They carried an ATR and a BREN, in 44!
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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toxicpixie
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« Reply #10 on: 06 May 2021, 03:10:57 PM »

Hey, if you need to open a particularly stuck can of bully beef or unjam a wheel nut the Boyes ATR is a great piece of kit!
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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« Reply #11 on: 06 May 2021, 03:15:30 PM »

It will certainly damage the Humber or Otter. BTW there is no "e" in Boys.....being a total pedant. You would have thought they would have given them a Polsten,
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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toxicpixie
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« Reply #12 on: 06 May 2021, 05:48:08 PM »

Yese, ypure righte, Ie doe apologisee!
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kustenjaeger
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« Reply #13 on: 06 May 2021, 09:34:24 PM »

By 1944 the Recce Regiment scout troops had an HQ of an armoured car, a reconnaissance section of 2 patrols each of 1 heavy (Humber IV later Daimler I) and 1 light car (Humber LRC) and two carrier sections each of 3 carriers.

Edward

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michaelk
Cadet

Posts: 29


« Reply #14 on: 06 May 2021, 09:47:03 PM »

Thanks all for the very interesting comments.
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