Why are Wargames Rules so Complicated ... ?

Started by Big Insect, 24 April 2021, 10:41:45 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Big Insect

Quote from: kustenjaeger on 24 April 2021, 06:30:29 PM
I know quite a few (but by no means all)  comments on lack of precision of a number of wargame rules come from American readers.

However it is incredibly easy to be unintentionally imprecise.

There's also a language thing.  In my experience US English treats 'should' as 'must' and the UK and much of the rest of the world treats 'should' as 'it is recommended that'.  So international standards (at least in my line of work) use 'shall' to mean 'must'.

Edward

Very helpful insight Edward - I shall be a lot more precise in my own rules writing in future - no 'shoulds' only 'musts'
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

steve_holmes_11

Suggested reasons.

1. Competition proofing (for the folks who enjoy that sort of thing), to lock out the rules lawyers.

2. There's a small minority who actually enjoy poring over pages of paragraph-free text, tables of tables, and glossaries the length of a Hayes manual. If asked they'll mention the "real world experience".

3. The perception of value: You get 200 pages and 7 supporting codexes (HHrmph! codices). It won't be staying simply with that page count.

4. Badly organised stream of consciousness more worthy of Ginsberg's poetry. Oh yes gentle reader, it is out there.

5. Loss of the focus. "I wrote a manageable set of Napoleonic rules, but then decided to stretch it for everything from 1600 to 1918. It increased the page count ten-fold, but was well worth the effort".


jimduncanuk

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 24 April 2021, 08:16:52 PM
Suggested reasons.

1. Competition proofing (for the folks who enjoy that sort of thing), to lock out the rules lawyers.


I don't let the 'rules lawyers' play at my table.
My Ego forbids a signature.

FierceKitty

25 April 2021, 03:56:02 AM #18 Last Edit: 25 April 2021, 04:00:55 AM by FierceKitty
Ambiguity of instructions with disastrous results is not unknown to history:

Lord Raglan wishes the cavalry to advance rapidly to the front, and try to prevent the enemy carrying away the guns. Troop of horse artillery may accompany. French cavalry is on your left. Immediate.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

parkerm17

I was lucky enough many years ago to be one of Don Featherstone's Wargaming "Coven" in Southampton: the rules (one one sheet of paper) were typed and stapled to the ceiling for ease of reference.   Any disputes that common sense could not resolve or a dice roll were settled by Don: wargames lawyers were not welcome and everyone had fun!

steve_holmes_11

Quote from: parkerm17 on 25 April 2021, 09:44:59 AM
I was lucky enough many years ago to be one of Don Featherstone's Wargaming "Coven" in Southampton: the rules (one one sheet of paper) were typed and stapled to the ceiling for ease of reference.   Any disputes that common sense could not resolve or a dice roll were settled by Don: wargames lawyers were not welcome and everyone had fun!

It sounds brilliant.

I can't imagine many of the hobby's founding fathers sticking around if they weren't having fun.
I'm sure they would have moved on and sailed model yachts, or flown gliders, of built incredible railway sets.

What so many of s newcomers forget is that the gaming alternatives at the time were Featherstone, Ludo, Monopoly or Snakes and Ladders.
And most people found Monopoly too complicated.

steve_holmes_11

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 24 April 2021, 08:16:52 PM
Suggested reasons.

1. Competition proofing (for the folks who enjoy that sort of thing), to lock out the rules lawyers.

2. There's a small minority who actually enjoy poring over pages of paragraph-free text, tables of tables, and glossaries the length of a Hayes manual. If asked they'll mention the "real world experience".

3. The perception of value: You get 200 pages and 7 supporting codexes (HHrmph! codices). It won't be staying simply with that page count.

4. Badly organised stream of consciousness more worthy of Ginsberg's poetry. Oh yes gentle reader, it is out there.

5. Loss of the focus. "I wrote a manageable set of Napoleonic rules, but then decided to stretch it for everything from 1600 to 1918. It increased the page count ten-fold, but was well worth the effort".

Let me add:

6. Amendments / errata - largely unavoidable. But if they reach half the page count of your rules, you need to re-assess your platesting methods.

7. Fan driven second / third / fourth .... editions where you fix their complaints (and introduce twice as many). Not to be confused with commercially driven second editions, where you change the introduction and pictures.

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

steve_holmes_11

Quote from: ianrs54 on 25 April 2021, 10:18:55 AM
Rather cynical Mr Holmes.

The Cynics are my favourite Later Hoplite Greek force.

Their distinctive abilities include:
* May call on Heracles as a Hero / Champion.
* Added missile saves because they live in barrels.
* Can see right through the ruses of their effete Theban and Athenian opponents.

;)

Meanwhile - Number 8: The aggregated 'special' rules form 36 issues of Pale Elf magazine.

DecemDave

You want cynical:

9. You get to issue a "players guide" with explanations and nice pictures at a higher price than the original ruleset

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Mrs B's guide to DBA by any chance.

I will admit that I do try to break a rule set to see if there is anything wrong. There is for instance a major flaw in "Sound of the guns" which means that the British Lt cavalry can always break a square. {No I'm not going to tell you}
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

toxicpixie

Quote from: ianrs54 on 25 April 2021, 12:11:38 PM
Mrs B's guide to DBA by any chance.

I will admit that I do try to break a rule set to see if there is anything wrong. There is for instance a major flaw in "Sound of the guns" which means that the British Lt cavalry can always break a square. {No I'm not going to tell you}

We used to play those at Uni.

Put me off Napoleonics for a decade.
I provide a cheap, quick painting service to get you table top quality figures ready to roll - www.facebook.com/jtppainting

toxicpixie

Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 25 April 2021, 10:38:31 AM
The Cynics are my favourite Later Hoplite Greek force.

Their distinctive abilities include:
* May call on Heracles as a Hero / Champion.
* Added missile saves because they live in barrels.
* Can see right through the ruses of their effete Theban and Athenian opponents.

;)

Meanwhile - Number 8: The aggregated 'special' rules form 36 issues of Pale Elf magazine.


Do all your armies consist of plucked chicken models...
I provide a cheap, quick painting service to get you table top quality figures ready to roll - www.facebook.com/jtppainting

steve_holmes_11

Quote from: toxicpixie on 25 April 2021, 12:55:54 PM
Do all your armies consist of plucked chicken models...

Funny you should mention that.
My "other gaming" (D&D) monicker is "Big Chicken Eating Steve".

The Dungeon Master is working on the number of chickens required for a balanced fight with an adult human.

toxicpixie

One, as a man is a featherless biped so one plucked chicken = one man.

Now, if the chicken is armed...
I provide a cheap, quick painting service to get you table top quality figures ready to roll - www.facebook.com/jtppainting