Command Blunder question

Started by Zinkala, 28 February 2021, 08:08:57 PM

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Zinkala

Had this pop up today. Playing the Pursuit scenario my opponent rolled a blunder and got the result to move 10cm towards his edge. Does that count as receiving an order so the CO can't activate them? Or would the CO still be able to activate them? We played it that they had already done everything they could that turn.

The way my luck works, even when he gets a blunder his units still moved in the direction he needed.  :-  Just not as fast as he would have liked.

Big Insect

There has been some debate on this matter previously.

A blunder is considered to be a received order - and so the CO (assuming the blunder was thrown by an HQ or an FAO or FAC) cannot order the unit again.

If it had been a failed command roll, then the CO could have ordered that unit (assuming that the unit had not moved previously that turn with a commanded order).

Hope that makes sense?
Cheers
Mark
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Zinkala

Yep, that sounds how I ruled it. I figured they got an order, just not a good one. So no CO attempt to correct.

Amra

I think I understand the logic ,but didn't you just roll a 12 when you couldn't go above 8 ? ( or whatever?)

It seems odd that 11 stops you but 12 you keep going ....

Big Insect

Not sure I understand the turn of this conversation.

If the HQ is CV8 and you throw a 9-10-11 you have just failed to communicate.

You throw a 12 (a blunder) then this is a received order causing confusion - supposed to replicate the 'fog of war' or a local misinterpretation of an order or an inappropriate order being received, etc.

Likewise if you roll a double 1 and end up with a Command bonus - that potentially replicates great local initiative or a higher level of command getting very focused on local events, etc.

They are both just mechanisms to add some random variation (fate) into the Command mechanism. I know that some players ignore blunders and bonuses - just treating them like ordinary successful or failed command rolls. Its a variation you are welcome to play - although personally I think it makes the game very predictable.   :D
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fred.

I get that view, but until then I was with Amra, that a 12 was a failed order.

Not that a 12 is a successful order, that is misunderstood.

Other than the CO attempting to re-order I'm not sure it matters. It might just be clearer to say a blunder (12) can't be re-ordered. 

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Big Insect

Quote from: fred. on 05 March 2021, 05:45:30 PM
I get that view, but until then I was with Amra, that a 12 was a failed order.

Not that a 12 is a successful order, that is misunderstood.

Other than the CO attempting to re-order I'm not sure it matters. It might just be clearer to say a blunder (12) can't be re-ordered. 



Fair point fred
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Zinkala

BKC has a lot more randomness in it than other games I play. In pretty much every other ruleset we use our units do what they're supposed to until broken for whatever reason. That takes some getting used to but it's giving us some of our more memorable moments. The kid's panzer IVs entering from a flank, getting multiple snake eyes and roaring into my rear destroying most of my transport when I was supposed to be retreating. Or his mortars blowing themselves out of the game. My airforce missing his tanks on a hill and shredding mine in the valley. We're having to rethink our games from being more chess like with player skill being the main factor to just go with the flow and take what comes. Skill is important as mistakes can be very punishing but not making the roll at the right time is having huge impacts on our games. His SS have very good CV so are pretty reliable and yet still don't do what he needs them to fairly often. My Canadians with CV8 are supposedly reliable but seem to only act 50% of the time. I've literally had games where half my force did nothing for 3 or more turns. Frustrating if the win was my main focus.

As for this specific blunder he wanted to move 20 cm forward. The blunder gave him 10 cm. Just lucky it was in the right direction but still somewhat of a failure.

Ithoriel

Quote from: Amra on 05 March 2021, 11:55:37 AM
I think I understand the logic ,but didn't you just roll a 12 when you couldn't go above 8 ? ( or whatever?)

It seems odd that 11 stops you but 12 you keep going ....

Wait 'til that move forward leaves the unit stuck in the middle of nowhere in range of initiative fire from half the enemy force :)

We've always played it as a "Charge for the guns he said" order, so no later CO intervention possible.
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Zinkala

I do something similar to myself regularly. First action move my trucks closer so the infantry can dismount near where I want them. Second action.... There is no second action. I just have my loaded trucks sitting a short distance from cover so that the enemy can kill them easier. Starting to learn the sensible thing is make the PBI walk further and die slower.