Using BKCIV for Greek-Turkish War 1919-1922

Started by KTravlos, 20 February 2021, 08:56:36 AM

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KTravlos

Good Day to all

I have not posted here in a while, as my wargaming projects moved from 10mm to bigger scales (DBA in 1/72, British Civil Wars in 28mm). But I wanted to ask something. I am looking for a rules-system that can accommodate divisional to battalion actions during the Greek-Turkish War of 1919-1922. Essentially I want to make a scenario for the Battle of Kamelar Resistance Center during the Turkish Great Offensive, which pitted eight Greek companies (one from 5/42 Evozne Regiment, three from I Battalion/35th Regiment, three from II Battalion/11th Regiment plus 16 machine guns) supported by six pak artillery guns, against two Turkish division supported by substantial divisional and corps artillery.

Could BKCIV work for this?

With Respect
KTravlos

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

It should work but your cv's may be rather low so a frustrating game. You could try Great War Spearhead though. There is an io group for those, and its almost as freindly as this area,
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Steve J

I can't see why it wouldn't work, as it works well for the SCW and others have used it for the Russian Revolution. You may need to up the CVs to give a better game, as low historical CVs can lead to a rather dull game as Ian has intimated. Also using field defences to give a balanced game may take some trial and error, as too much with hits coming off can lead to an almost impossible chance for the attacker to win. I know I've played two historical scenarios against dug-in troops (as attacker and defender with Soviet troops) and in both games the attackers never had a chance. Rather dull for both players to be honest. Hope this helps?

Big Insect

The trick would be to use the Line Commander rules from the Spanish Civil War supplement.
That was specifically designed to facilitate a game with a large number of infantry / foot units. You'd need to also play Fixed Formations if you to that.
I'd also look at the most appropriate Tactical Doctrine for each army and each scenario. The Turks might be classified as Flexible if using good quality troops, whilst in other games if they are using poorer  quality troops I'd go for a Ridid Tac.Doc. myself. Equally as the Turks get bogged town in mountainous terrain, the Greeks might be better represented as using Guerilla Tac.Doc.

With regards to CVs - I am not necessarily sure you'd need low CVs, as you are playing a very specific historical match up.
As long as the CV's give you the right flavor for the specific troop types - so CV6 or even CV7 for militia units and higher for regulars and maybe higher still for elite Turkish units, it should all work out the same.

The other big difference is artillery - most of your guns (probably all of them - unless naval) would be on-table - firing over open sights or with a Line of Fire directed by their own HQs up near the front line. The heavier guns can be bought as Independent units (@ 5pts extra per gun) so that they are not affected by command distance penalties.
You might also want to insist that all on-table guns have their tows on table - as they are vulnerable (being horse drawn) and so it will not encourage you to keep the guns too close to the front line.

I'd also make full use of the Special Characteristics - with some units being classified as Green, others Elite and few Veteran. Some of the Greek units were good in poor terrain (mountains) so you could reflect that. These mountaineer units might also have an attached Recce unit. Some Turkish units might be classified as Green/Raw but also Ferocious (see SWC) - so if it looks like they will get into hand-to-hand with the Greeks they are almost impetuous in their behavior, but getting them there, under fire, is not going to be easy.

I'd suggest you play about with things and see how best to get the characteristics of each side from the rules.
I'd be really interested in hearing how you get on as I am keen to consider a Great War Commander set of rules - once all the other rules projects are all sorted  :)
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Quote from: Big Insect on 20 February 2021, 03:40:36 PM

I'd be really interested in hearing how you get on as I am keen to consider a Great War Commander set of rules - once all the other rules projects are all sorted  :)
That will never happen Mark.
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Ithoriel

Quote from: Big Insect on 20 February 2021, 03:40:36 PM
I'd be really interested in hearing how you get on as I am keen to consider a Great War Commander set of rules - once all the other rules projects are all sorted  :)

Colour me interested in those rules ... if you ever get round to them!
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KTravlos

I have them, and feel the system wıll not work as well for actıons under dıvısıonal-corps level

Shedman

Back in 2014 we did a Russo-Japanese War game using BKCII.

We found that BKC2 worked well for the command and control, movement and weapon ranges but, with 120 bases on the table, firing and suppression rolls were painfully slow

https://twomarshals.blogspot.com/2014/08/feng-aoliu-rjw-battle-using-blitzkrieg.html

Your battle sounds a lot like Nanshan, again from the RJW, where  13 Russian companies almost held off 3 Japanese divisions. Bloody Big Battles has a scenario for this in the groups.io files