Warlord Games Epic ACW Battles

[Leon]

The Kallistra figures looked pretty close sizewise so they should be fine to mix in.  The tricky bit is that the plastics are a much slimmer casting/sculpt style so they'll look smaller when lined up next to a chunkier metal figure. 

[Westmarcher]

My own ACW collection is 100% Peter Pig. The figures are actually 15mm from sole of foot to eye-level and so are larger than both Kallistra and the Warlord figures. The same topic is being discussed on the Peter Pig forum and side by side comparisons of the Kallistra and Warlord artillery crews appear to show Warlord to be marginally taller. Also, the Kallistra artillery sculpt appears to be more accurate and of far better quality. The Warlord mounted cavalry figure is also slightly taller. Overall, I think they are fairly compatible.

https://rulesforcommonman.uk/index.php?topic=3032.15

I mentioned previously that Warlord's offering is effectively less than £0.75 for 20 figures. But what you are actually getting for that amount of money are two plastic strips sculpted to depict 10 figures joined together. As this actually only requires 1 mould per strip and not 10 separate moulds per figure, it makes me wonder if the same method could be used for smaller scale figures.  

[fred.]

. ]
. But what you are actually getting for that amount of money are two plastic strips sculpted to depict 10 figures joined together. As this actually only requires 1 mould per strip and not 10 separate moulds per figure, it makes me wonder if the same method could be used for smaller scale figures.  

Indeed GW did this years ago in 10mm for both Warmaster in metal and the Battle of Five armies in plastic. Now I think about it the BoFA box was very similar idea to this offering from Warlord, it contained loads of figures, some terrain and rules, all at a bargain price. The problem was the figures weren't that great, they were pretty small for 10mm, and lacked in detail.

But strips of 10mm figures is definitely a thing, and some of the newer Warmaster manufactures are making figures this way. Strips are good for getting a close ranked line, and a quicker to paint, as you are really only painting 2 sides of the figure, not 4. But they aren't so good for more irregular formations.

[Leman]

This is probably why the dismounted cavalry are cast in pairs, and there appear to be five different pairs, presumably to be based up with varying gaps and in different combinations.

[fred.]

The pairs probably work better for dismounted cavalry in a more skirmish style formation - but single figures would have been better. Often you can cut apart pairs of figures, I've done it with metal ones, but it really depends on the degree of overlap, if its just weapons cutting apart is easy enough, but if it is more, you end up with flat spots where the overlap was.

I've been looking at the cost of these, as there are all sorts of numbers bouncing around.
In the big box (£90, 2400 figures) a figures is just less than 4p each, or £1.13 for 30.
In the brigade box (£20, 300 figures and 3 guns) a figure is just under 7p, or £2 for 30

So the big box is very good value, the other boxes are around half the price of metals (Kallistra if bought in their deal are around 16p each) but you are getting much less variety of poses.

[John Cook]

I don't like strips.  Old Glory 10mm infantry come in strips and are not really compatible with any other 10mm range.

[kipt]

Agree.  I am using some ACW Old Glory and had to cut them apart and do some filing and cutting.  I have them mixed with my Pendraken and Cracker Line,

I tried to grind the base down so they wouldn't be too tall, but ended up softening them with the heat where they were squatting.  And the Old Glory muskets are terrible.

Skirmishers and generals are not too bad and I have 2 bags of cavalry that I haven't done yet.  But no more Old Glory.

[jambo1]

I have OG Marlburian and SYW and Napoleonics in strips, they paint  up fine and quick, I will be interested in the ACW box set from Warlord, the whole shebang in one go appeals to me. It's the usual though if you don't like it don't buy it, all down to personal choice.

[Westmarcher]

I'm not daft on strips myself because you are forced into using a fixed base width (I've experienced these with 6mm Irregular Miniatures - like Old Glory, these also have thick bases and were tricky to cut). The Warlord offering is far too wide for my tastes. But if pitched at a fairly popular width (whatever that is), say, 30mm per strip (I guess you might get 5 Pendraken size figures on this?), it could be interesting to use this kind of thing to form the bulk of your close order infantry units, with the remainder augmented by metal sculpts (e.g., command, cavalry, skirmishers, artillery crew, etc.)

If a good quality plastic product in 10mm was released, what is the maximum gamers would be prepared to pay 'per foot figure'? No more than half the price of a metal sculpt? A third? A quarter?

p.s. In case it wasn't clear, when I said, "it makes me wonder if the same method could be used for smaller scale figures" I meant plastic figures.

[steve_holmes_11]

After a long-ish think:

ACW offerings like this have great potential for a beginner.

ACW has 2 teams only with a fairly standard uniform for the bulk of the figures.
Not too many horses involved.
Popular historical setting for a large English speaking nation.
Simple painting will be good enough.

In fact another company run by a young American offered something quite similar some years ago.
I thought it was a great beginner offering with pre-coloured figures, choices of box size and ready to play rules.
Alas the company folded after a year or two - so clearly had not "cracked the market".


This opens the Pandoras box to the dark arts of marketing.
I've seen those perfume ads - don't try to convince me there's science involved.
Much as I'm a cynic, I understand the marketing chappies are looking for new markets, and like to identify a target demographic.
This is where I get lost in a fog - and explains why I will never be a competitor to Pendraken, Peter Pig, Baccus6mm etc.

At this point I try to guess the target demographic for this range.
* Non gamers - good luck, you are treading where young American chap failed - through I accept that Warlord have a lot more marketing OOmph.
    I do question which non-gamers would visit the Warlord website, or wander into a wargame show and make their way to the warlord stand.
* Gamers who think "I always wanted to get into the ACW".
    This shopper is already engaged with the hobby, and might be attracted by the attractive price offering.
    On the other hand and engaged gamer has odd (annoying) requirements - who else makes troop in this scale? where are the Iron brigade? what about cavalry? How about some western theatre troops? dismounted cavalry?
* People who want to make dioramas of key points in specific battles (Do they have this sort of thing in glass cases at the battlefields?)
    The odd scale, and fairly static poses may be a problem here.
    On the other hand, if you want to depict a big muster before a battle, they might be ideal.


To summarise:
  Yes there are non-gamers, but do they want to game, and if so would ACW be their first choice? I thought the cool kids were all about goblins and space marines - now with added pirates.
  Yes there are gamers who might wish to branch out to ACW, but an odd scale in a box may reduce the attractiveness of this offering.

[steve_holmes_11]

The rules on the other hand are a stroke of genius.

I'd imagine Black Powder (plus a bit of Glory Hallelujah) would fit into a slim A5 volume.

IF:
   They dump all the "fluff and photos".
   They re-write it in modern English, and stick to "Just the rules" rather than musing on the sort of 'gentleman' who doesn't field full teams with his caissons.

I love Black Powder as a toolkit, but find the writing style and lack of indexing infuriating.

[John Cook]

I also cut my OG infantry apart and mounted them individually.  I do like OG cavalry though.  My OG are confined to Kingdom of Jerusalem and Ayyubids at Hattin and  I also have a Hastings collection using Pendraken's Saxons and Normans.  I find them significantly 'better fed' than OG, particularly the cavalry.  I tend to keep my armies to one manufacturer as much as possible.  On a positive note the concept of a boxed set, with terrain and rules, is a good one potentially, particularly for historical scenarios, like Hougoumont at Waterloo or Rorke's Drift for example.

[Norm]

of interest is also the fact hat Warlord do not doe a 28mm ACW line in plastic, while Perry do ..... so they can launch this without any impact on their 28's other than the signal it may send that other periods may follow, but as a single tester product in the market, it looks a safe trial for them and any sale is a sale that is new money.

[Last Hussar]

My little wooden men are 96 figure units - 12 strips of 8. I know they are flat, and thus a bit easier, but the secret is to paint them as a strip, especially if you undercoat with the jacket colour.
So spray grey, and use a wider brush than you might think to do all the legs in one go by painting them as a stripe, etc. You'd be surprised how quick they get done

[Leman]

I don't like strips.  Old Glory 10mm infantry come in strips and are not really compatible with any other 10mm range.

Well they have worked exceptionally well in my 10mm SYW Prussian army, both the strips of musketeers and the individual cavalry. My Prussian grenadiers and fusiliers are Pendraken and work well when based as if a four figure strip, one behind the other, ie 8 figures on a 25mm square base.

Well I was going to put a couple of my facebook photos in, but as usual some millenial thought it would be a great idea to revamp facebook and now I can't find anything other than complete bloody strangers wanting to be my friend. WTF is wrong with these people?