The over-rated

[steve_holmes_11]

It might be more interesting to hear about the top 5  underrated generals

I'll get you started with:

Slim: Highly rated now, but always the man in the unfashionable theatre.

Admiral Yi (Korea): Did a lot of ship fighting, and almost as much land fighting, constantly disadvantaged by court intrigues, but always victorious.

Suvorov is not as well known in the west as he deserves.

[FierceKitty]

Yi and Suvarov are hardly underrated, I'd say. I've never read a disparaging word about either.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Perhappes they are under-publicised

[d_Guy]

Remembered for one disastrous loss, Rosecrans is much underrated I think. He suffered from a cantankerous personality and superiors who had better publicity departments (he totally made McClellan's early reputation, for example). His use of maneuver and misdirection on several  occasions is worth a rating higher than he generally receives.

Speaking of publicity departments, Montrose is overrated and benefited from his erstwhile subordinate, Alasdair  MacColla. As a general MacColla is usually underrated, being portrayed as a brave, but bumbling hulk. He had far better strategic sense than Montrose (as to what was  possible) and could read the tactical  situation better than most.

Hammurabi makes a good point about ratings. Mine are highly personal using my own yardstick which is rather elastic and driven by current mood. 

[fsn]

Napoleon in 1798 was not the Napoleon of 1805 ... nor was he the Napoleon of 1813 and definitely not the Napoleon of 1815.
Similarly Napoleon's army of 1798 was not the one of 1805 etc.
Which was the best Napoleon?

Rommel in 1940 had a different mission from Rommel in 1944.  His relationship with the upper echelons was different. His forces in 1940 were not the same as those in 1944.
Which was the best Rommel?  

Would Patton have been anything but panzer fodder if he had command of a Polish army in 1939?  Would Harold Godwinson have beaten William the B if he hadn't had the sojourn in the North? Would Moore have continued to lead the British in the Peninsula if he hadn't had a poem written about him? What then of Wellesley? Would Lee have been a shining light wearing blue?    

Context, dear boy, context.

[flamingpig0]

Just found this on Patton

warontherocks.com/2014/08/warchives-the-myth-of-germanys-obsession-with-patton/

[paulr]

Interesting

[Chris Pringle]

Suvorov is not as well known in the west as he deserves.

I agree, Suvorov was an amazing character, beloved by his troops. One characteristic episode: when his men were repulsed at the St Gotthard Pass, he lay in a ditch wailing 'you are no longer my children!' and motivating them to give it another (successful) go.

Yi and Suvarov are hardly underrated, I'd say. I've never read a disparaging word about either.

While Clausewitz gives Suvorov due praise for his leadership - who else could have led an army on that mad march over the Alps and made it out the other side? - he also points out some limitations. E.g., Suvorov was a difficult man to get on with: he managed to insult and offend the Austrians under his command by the way he made them practise bayonet assaults, implying he didn't think they knew how to attack.

As for another over-rated general: how about Archduke Charles? Frequently praised (with justification) as Austria's best general of the Napoleonic Wars, but people seem to forget how badly he performed in 1799. I particularly cherish his comically incompetent failed attempt at a river crossing near Zurich, which reads like a badly designed wargame scenario in which 200 Swiss riflemen exploit a rules loophole to prevent Charles's 30,000 allied troops from getting across.

Anyway, Clausewitz's histories of 1799 are a great read.
https://kansaspress.ku.edu/978-0-7006-3025-7.html
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2020/09/exceptional-elegant-and-accessible.html

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles

[flamingpig0]

Just imagine how Ramesses ii would make use of social media

[FierceKitty]

Just imagine how Ramesses ii would have made use of social media.

I thought he did!

[Ithoriel]

Just imagine how Ramesses ii would make use of social media

I thought he did!

Ramesses wrote on walls, was desperate for followers, had odd ideas on how the world worked and venerated cats. Social media on the other hand ...  Oh! ... wait! .... I see what you mean

[Chris Pringle]

Ramesses wrote on walls, was desperate for followers, had odd ideas on how the world worked and venerated cats. Social media on the other hand ...  Oh! ... wait! .... I see what you mean

[Chris Pringle]

As for another over-rated general: how about Archduke Charles? Frequently praised (with justification) as Austria's best general of the Napoleonic Wars, but people seem to forget how badly he performed in 1799. I particularly cherish his comically incompetent failed attempt at a river crossing near Zurich, which reads like a badly designed wargame scenario in which 200 Swiss riflemen exploit a rules loophole to prevent Charles's 30,000 allied troops from getting across.

Kinda disappointed nobody leapt to defend Archduke Charles against the accusation of being over-rated ... did I do too good a job of making the case against him? 

Chris

[toxicpixie]

We're mostly British, and either think you went to small as he's a European and not Wellington or Nelson, or have done mild reading and assume you're trolling, Chris

Monty. I used to think he was appalling then I read his memoirs and somehow formed an even lower opinion of him. Such a load of self aggrandising pap have I never seen (outside of MacArthur & Patton). Then I mellowed as I aged and realised whilst he was almost always wrong on detail, his broad scope was often correct, and he wasn't paralysed with fear of failure but rather was mostly meticulous in the the dotting of T's and crossing of I's that win strategic victory

Mountbatten on the other hand I have a deep and abiding loathing for as every operation he touched spent lives like water for his personal attempt to worm in and place himself inside the Royals (although he had to settle for Phil the Greek, but that was enough).

[John Cook]

Kinda disappointed nobody leapt to defend Archduke Charles against the accusation of being over-rated ... did I do too good a job of making the case against him? 
Chris

Hard to know why, but it might be because these kinds of discussions often lead to the deeply unpleasant, appallingly rude, partisan rubbish that is seen on other forums, such as TMP, The Napoleonic Wars Forum and the, now defunct, Napoleon Series.