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Author Topic: Sword and Spear  (Read 945 times)
Waremblem
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« on: 13 November 2020, 01:45:47 AM »

I've recently picked up a copy of Sword and Spear rules. Would anyone have prior experience in basing 10mm figures for this set? I'm kicking around the idea of putting together some Romans and wonder how they would base on an 80mm unit. Or do you use 40mm bases? Legionarries in two lines or three? Lines of how many? Or how about cavalry? Pictures would be extremely helpful - all the images in the rule book are from 28 or 15s.
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paulr
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« Reply #1 on: 13 November 2020, 06:52:18 AM »

Earlier this year I did some Romans for the Punic wars, based for DBM so infantry on 40x20mm and cavalry on 40x30mm

You can find some pictures here http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,19425.msg298998.html#msg298998

and here http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,19425.msg299475.html#msg299475

I went with foot in two ranks using about twice the numbers suggested for 15mm figures, mounted were in a single rank and the number of figures suggested for 15mm
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hammurabi70
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« Reply #2 on: 13 November 2020, 10:02:52 AM »

I am impressed if you did it in 10mm. 20 years ago I did my Punic Wars figures in 6mm and found doing double 15mm number of 6mm on a 40mm base tight enough.
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ianrs54
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« Reply #3 on: 13 November 2020, 10:45:20 AM »

My Sassainian and Arab infantry, also Turks and Poles go with 10 infnatry on a base, with regukars I might try for 12, on 40x 20, in two ranks for all.
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Waremblem
Cadet

Posts: 30


« Reply #4 on: 13 November 2020, 02:07:49 PM »

Thank you, Paul. That was extremely helpful. I like your staggered lines. So if you're mounting two lines of 4 on 40mm I'll plan for two lines of 8 on 80 probably extending the depth a bit for a more diorama feel.
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mmcv
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« Reply #5 on: 13 November 2020, 02:18:20 PM »

It probably depends a bit on how much work you want to do with the units and how you want the units to look!

I've not used the rules myself, but if they recommend an 80mm frontage, then an 80x40 base will comfortably fit a full 30 pack of figures if you fill the base. However, you probably want a bit of space around the figures rather than cramming them in. I find on an 80x40 3 ranks of 7 figures works quite well, there's enough space there if you want to add a few command figures out front or back (though I've generally included in the lines).

Not for the Punic Wars but rather the Trojan War, it will give you some sense of what 3 ranks of 7 looks like on an 80x40:



For a more dense order look this could easily go to 3 rows of 8 though.

For 40x40 bases, you could go as dense as 16-20 figures, but I'd normally go with 3-4 rows of roughly 4 figures each for more irregular ordered troops, with maybe 2-3 rows of 5 each for close order, then the full 20 or (at a real squeeze) you could get up to 25 on a 40x40 edge to edge for denser blocks. Wouldn't really recommend 25 though, would be very fiddly.

I've not done Punic Wars yet, but when I do I'm planning to follow something very similar to what Paul has done with his. I've been working on a couple of projects using smaller basing (i.e. typically 40x20 per infantry, 40x30 cavalry, with a few 40x40 for deep or special units) and I'm fairly happy with the effect.

I actually go into some depth on my own basing thinking in what has proven to be my most popular blog post so far: http://mmcvhistory.home.blog/2020/04/14/the-great-basing-debate/ where I do pay some consideration to Romans and how I'd approach their basing.

Most rules that work on frontages can be easily adapted to suit different basing styles, such as halving distances if going to 40mm frontage, or converting inches to cm. So ultimately it will depend most on:

a) how much time you have to paint
b) how many figures you're willing to paint
c) what is aesthetically pleasing to you

I've found I'm happy to use a reasonably dense figured 40x20 as a unit in it's own right for the moment when space and time is limited. In future, if I have more space and more time I may go back to bigger units, but if aesthetically happy with the smaller ones, there's no reason to go bigger.

At the end of the day, until you get some figures and start sticking them to bases in different arrangements, settling on an idea, sleeping on it, coming back and rearranging them all a few times, scratching your head, scarpping it all and starting with a new arrangement and finally saying "screw it, let's just commit to this and run with it" then start painting them and go back to the idea you had 2 steps previously, you'll not know for sure...
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Orcs
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« Reply #6 on: 13 November 2020, 02:50:21 PM »

I have Early Imperial Roman, Dacian and WOR in 10mm that I use for Sword and Spear.

Basing all om 40 x 20 mm bases (were used for Warmaster Ancients).  I use a 40mm frontage anyway as this fits with most rulesets.

I find its useful to adjust the number of figures per base depending on what they are. Also this seems to allow you to fit them onto the base.

Legoonaries = 2 ranks of 5
Auxillaries = 2 ranks of 4
Warband - 5-7 figures randomly placed
Bow, Billman - Front rank 4 figs rear rank 3 figs, (behind buti gaps in front rank)
Pike- 2 rows of 4 or 5 just depends what looks right.
Skirmishers - 3 or 4 ramdomlt placed
Cavalry - one rank of 3 figures
Cataphracts/Knights 1 rank of 4 figures
Light Horse -2 figures randomly placed
Chariots -1 per base on using the 20mm side as frontage and use two bases for the unit ( or 2 on a 40 x 40 base )
Light Artillery (organ guns, Baliista) 1 per base on using the 20mm side as frontage and use two bases for the unit(Or 2 on 40 x 40 base)
Medium/Heavy Artillery (Catapults/Guns ) 1 on 40 x 40mm base

I then use a 2 base frontage(total 80mm).  Pike look better if three bases deep. Line units 2 bases deep, Skirmishers a single base deep



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mmcv
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« Reply #7 on: 13 November 2020, 03:34:55 PM »

Quote
Chariots -1 per base on using the 20mm side as frontage and use two bases for the unit ( or 2 on a 40 x 40 base )

That must be a tight enough squeeze? Are they mostly 2 horse chariots? I've two-horse chariots that I can fit 3 to an 80mm base for Trojan War, maybe 4 at a sqeeze, but the 4 hours chariots my Chinese deploy only fit one to a 40x40, the only foil in my small basing plan as don't really like a single figure representing the entire unit, would ideally want at least two for it to be right. If I ever double them up to 80mm frontages it'll be fine though.
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Waremblem
Cadet

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« Reply #8 on: 14 November 2020, 05:56:54 AM »

Orcs - how do you designate a unit "large"? Greater depth or more minis on base? Or both? And how do you differentiate between heavy and medium foot when basing?
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Orcs
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« Reply #9 on: 14 November 2020, 11:09:21 AM »

Orcs - how do you designate a unit "large"? Greater depth or more minis on base? Or both? And how do you differentiate between heavy and medium foot when basing?

I don't bother designating between Heavy and medium when basing. Normally the figure type shows you.  We use the army list as a play sheet, making up one for each game so under Unit description I might put somthing that identifies it

For large  units I just add extra  bases. making them deeper.


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My aim in life was to P*ss off one person a day. I am so far ahead of schedule I will have to live to 97 even if I stop now.

The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.
Waremblem
Cadet

Posts: 30


« Reply #10 on: 15 November 2020, 06:20:22 PM »

How would I go about showing the difference between heavy and medium (1st century AD) German warriors? Shields vs no shields? Ancients really aren't my area of expertise.
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fsn
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« Reply #11 on: 15 November 2020, 06:52:28 PM »

I use a fairly simple method
  • light - nor armour or shield except perhaps a helmet or buckler; skirmish types
  • medium - armour or shield;  the mass of infantry
  • heavy infantry - armour and shield; elites
Hope that helps
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Lord Oik of Runcorn
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fred.
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« Reply #12 on: 15 November 2020, 08:30:36 PM »

As well as the equipment differences I also tend to increase the number of figures on a base for heavy infantry and reduce it for lights.
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