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Author Topic: Operation Sealion Game 4  (Read 473 times)
Dave Fielder
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« Reply #15 on: 16 October 2020, 02:22:08 PM »

Did he say "downsize" in his narrative? Hmmm .... just buy everything all again in 6mm #sorted
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mmcv
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« Reply #16 on: 16 October 2020, 03:02:16 PM »

So Horse and Musket period only.  I guess you could use the infantry as combined Pike & Shot units but as you go further back into ancients and forward to moderns it gets rather complex and tortuous as the variations increase.  I am not sure at what point you merge into board gaming.

Yes, I tried using paper units for ancient armies after reading Featherstone's WAR GAMES back in the sixties and trying out his rules.  Your 2D blocks look much better than mine.    Having just finished the Second Punic War via ZOOM using Command & Colors: Ancients, for which I could use my considerable 6mm Punic Wars armies, my opponent wants to press on to Command & Colors: Napoleonics for which I have not a single figure and thought to print some material from Junior General to stick on some spare Pendraken bases that I have.  I recently acquired some Jenga blocks from the local charity shop but that was originally to create [WWII] blinds.  The various blocks that people are using give rise to some interesting alternative versions of this approach, although I am not convinced of the aesthetics of the approach. It strikes me as very peculiar when using 3D terrain but perhaps with 2D terrain as well it would make perfect sense and give a good visual effect, very close to Kriegsspiel.

I agree with you on it being difficult to use abstract markers for ancient where there's a much greater proportion of unit type to deal with, in those cases you probably are best going with something like junior general and printout out units that look the part. Or else writing what the unit is on the bases. It works best for horse and musket, though pike and shot works reasonably well too since they tend to be combined units, so the type variety is low. I found the label and abstract unit approach worked quite well for 19thC. I'm currently experimenting with playtesting some feudal japanese rules using pencil and paper, but aim to migrate them to bases with stats/unit types written on them soon. Then obviously figures. But it's a great way to try out rules and periods before taking the plunge.

Another option is going for 2mm or 3mm stuff, which can be put together pretty easily. You can bang out most of an army in a few sittings. I've been doing this with the Crimean war; British and Russians all done along with some Turks, just French to do then can play a few battles. I've also got a bunch of pike and shot stuff in 2mm to do at some point as it's well suited. Gives it a bit more of a 3d aspect, and the terrain and buildings look great at that scale. Though again not so good when you need a lot of troop variety distinction for ancients, but perfect for pike and shot and horse and musket and age of rifle, and possible big battle 20th C too. Plus my Crimean troops will mostly double up well as Napoleonics as a that scale nuances of uniform are unimportant. You've the reds and the blue and the browns and the greens and not much beyond that!
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hammurabi70
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« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 06:06:28 PM »

I agree with you on it being difficult to use abstract markers for ancient where there's a much greater proportion of unit type to deal with, in those cases you probably are best going with something like junior general and printout out units that look the part. Or else writing what the unit is on the bases. It works best for horse and musket, though pike and shot works reasonably well too since they tend to be combined units, so the type variety is low. I found the label and abstract unit approach worked quite well for 19thC. I'm currently experimenting with playtesting some feudal japanese rules using pencil and paper, but aim to migrate them to bases with stats/unit types written on them soon. Then obviously figures. But it's a great way to try out rules and periods before taking the plunge.

Another option is going for 2mm or 3mm stuff, which can be put together pretty easily. You can bang out most of an army in a few sittings. I've been doing this with the Crimean war; British and Russians all done along with some Turks, just French to do then can play a few battles. I've also got a bunch of pike and shot stuff in 2mm to do at some point as it's well suited. Gives it a bit more of a 3d aspect, and the terrain and buildings look great at that scale. Though again not so good when you need a lot of troop variety distinction for ancients, but perfect for pike and shot and horse and musket and age of rifle, and possible big battle 20th C too. Plus my Crimean troops will mostly double up well as Napoleonics as a that scale nuances of uniform are unimportant. You've the reds and the blue and the browns and the greens and not much beyond that!

I had not thought of going so small; are the figures not a bit fiddly to deal with on such a small scale?  I should have thought them no more than a blob of blue or red or ... .
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mmcv
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« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 10:50:45 PM »

I had not thought of going so small; are the figures not a bit fiddly to deal with on such a small scale?  I should have thought them no more than a blob of blue or red or ... .

You're not far off, but actually it works really well for mass effect as you see the shape of the unit in a kind of "god's eye view" rather than each soldier modelled.

A few examples I found online:

2mm Napoleonic game, note the terrain and towns


Pike and shot as individual units


And some fantastic bigger base pike and shot using the same figure range on show here
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TtN2kXJtjM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TtN2kXJtjM</a>

3mm Samurai


3mm French


And the beginning of my own efforts



So you are very much painting the representative of the unit rather than individual figures, but looks well for mass battles and some have done very nice work with them. You can base them to be on manageable sizes, e.g. my ones there are on 25mm squares.

I know a few members of this forum have more advanced projects in this scale as well, such as ACW. At 3mm you can just about work with individual figures showing, at 2mm it's the blocks of troops.
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Steve J
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« Reply #19 on: Today at 07:25:55 AM »

The main issue I found with 2mm or 3mm figures, is being able to recognise each unit on the table, so labels are a must IMHO. If you get the terrain right as per the first 'photo, the effect is incredible and I've seen some impressive games too.
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hammurabi70
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« Reply #20 on: Today at 04:15:40 PM »

You're not far off, but actually it works really well for mass effect as you see the shape of the unit in a kind of "god's eye view" rather than each soldier modelled.

So you are very much painting the representative of the unit rather than individual figures, but looks well for mass battles and some have done very nice work with them. You can base them to be on manageable sizes, e.g. my ones there are on 25mm squares.

I know a few members of this forum have more advanced projects in this scale as well, such as ACW. At 3mm you can just about work with individual figures showing, at 2mm it's the blocks of troops.


Some impressive work there.  I do take the point that it is all about impression en masse rather than individual quality, which might even be better for my poor painting skills!  Cheesy  With not much visible effective labelling, or other marking, is evidently a must.  I suppose trying it is the ultimate test. 2mm or 3mm, a 50% difference in scale!  Grin
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mmcv
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« Reply #21 on: Today at 08:23:11 PM »

Some impressive work there.  I do take the point that it is all about impression en masse rather than individual quality, which might even be better for my poor painting skills!  Cheesy  With not much visible effective labelling, or other marking, is evidently a must.  I suppose trying it is the ultimate test. 2mm or 3mm, a 50% difference in scale!  Grin

Yeah, the benefit is they're pretty cheap so you can get some to try out and see how you like the effect without too much lost. Irregular sell 2mm as individual blocks, though they do have some army packs too. There are some nice looking 3mm Oddzial Osmy available from Magister Militum in packs too, I plan to get the 3mm samurai at some point to try out and see how they look. Not sure how doable such small individual figures will be, compared to the blocks you get at 2mm.
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