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Author Topic: Make new figures conversions of TB line figures instead of Pendraken ones  (Read 3888 times)
Dunnadd
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« Reply #15 on: 22 September 2020, 01:46:19 AM »

I do not see any major issues with the Pendraken range.  I agree some ranges are older than others and in general the new ranges are better figures. Also there is the odd pose that could be more animated .

As for saying the modelling is not that great??  I suggest you look at the other 10mm manufacturers ranges:-

Figures from one range where many of the ankles are so thin they break off while painting them
One manufacturers Early Imperial Roman range where the archers are literally head and shoulders above the rest.
Single pose packs for most of their ranges.
Significantly more expensive

TB line are lovely figures, but they are slightly larger figures, but if that's what you prefer then stick with the TB range

There are certainly worse 10mm figures (Warrior miniatures have no detail at all, and Magister Militum aren't great either), and you likely have a point on TB Line being a bit bigger than Pendraken's main line but I'd certainly prefer 12mm scale modelled a bit better. Every figure scale has had scale creep to some extent - and GW's warmaster fantasy range bizarrely had some armies modelled in true 10mm, and others a bit better modelled in 12mm.
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FierceKitty
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« Reply #16 on: 22 September 2020, 03:42:36 AM »

I have never been able to believe that anyone would buy those figures from Warrior.
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mmcv
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« Reply #17 on: 22 September 2020, 09:04:31 AM »

Some of the older dark age/medieval stuff is certainly not as nice as more recent bits. I have a few from the Early Medieval, Norman, and Arab ranges in my Crusades armies and they're definitely not as detailed and dynamic as other ranges, as well as being a bit smaller and more dainty looking proportions. But that's been the exception in my experience with Pendraken models, especially when looking at newer ranges.

The TB Line models are very nice, and I believe Leon put a lot of work cleaning them up and I'm looking forward to the Islamics coming out. There is a couple of mm size differences in them though as mentioned before.

The Pendraken Late Medieval range looks a lot nicer than the earlier ones, I'm guessing it has some more recent sculpts in it, and they do come out quite nicely. They stand up well against other 10mm medieval manufacturers in my experience.

There are many other ranges that I've had figures from that are very detailed and well done, better than anything else I've seen at 10mm (or even some 15mm). The LoA range springs to mind, as well as the Aztecs, though there's plenty more.

I'm surprised at your assessment of the figures as I'd always seen Pendraken as taking the time to get the quality right. I recall a few cases where figures have gone back to the scuptor because something wasn't quite right when they were previewed, as well as ensuring to have the same sculpter cover similar ranges for compatibility where possible.

Are there any "true 10mm" figures that you've been particularly impressed with as opposed to the ones creeping up towards 12mm?

Having an extra couple of mm to work with does probably allow the sculpter to put in a fair bit more detail, but then there's the compatibility issues with other 10mm figures and some of the ranges have done a superb job at getting details into such a small space.
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Westmarcher
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« Reply #18 on: 22 September 2020, 11:40:38 AM »

The only ones i've bought have been dark age, medieval and fantasy ....

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond - that's more helpful and makes more sense to me (initially I thought you were comparing the two ranges of one manufacturer with well over twelve ranges from another). As my own area of interest doesn't really go further back than the 16th century, I confess I'm not as qualified as other forum members to comment on the earlier period ranges. The TB figures look good and better than some of the Pendraken ones, imo (e.g., the Dark Ages Norman cavalry horse do look quite odd, in my view). To be fair some of the TB ones are not without their flaws either, imo - some of the spears and lances are a bit thick (and some hands are blobs with lines on them also) but I can see why Pendraken acquired the TB Line ranges. There are art critics today who find fault with Michelangelo's David and that is some 17 feet high but we are talking about 1cm high figures (and sculpted by guys who will probably admit to not having Michelangelo's level of skill). So, whilst I agree that as customers we should be allowed to express our opinions on the quality of the product on this forum and to make suggestions on how it might be improved, perhaps we shouldn't be too harsh bearing in mind that the product will rarely be seen closer than a metre's distance. It would be interesting to hear your views on the quality of, for example, the SYW, AWI and League of Augsburg ranges. As mentioned, as well as continually seeking to introduce new ranges, Leon also has an ongoing 'programme' of re-visiting some older ranges to re-vamp them so I'm sure your feedback will continue to be welcome.
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Noktu
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« Reply #19 on: 22 September 2020, 01:32:45 PM »

I do not really understand the problem here. As this is something that is just a matter of taste.

The early medieval and dark age models for example, are perfect (in my opinion) for pimping out a board game. Where you need a lot of information available easily and at glance, so that you don't need to Ben Dover whenever you are planning a move.

Sometimes more detail is less in a sense.


Also some gentleman here made saxons with the dark ages line, and these look splendid?!


http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=435596
« Last Edit: 22 September 2020, 01:36:36 PM by Noktu » Logged
Leon
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« Reply #20 on: 22 September 2020, 05:15:19 PM »

I'm not quite sure how to respond to some of this, I suppose the obvious question would be which 10mm figures do you like from other manufacturers?  Or is there a particular sculptor whose work you like?  I'd consider our sculptors to be some of the best working in this scale and I've always thought that our figures compare very well with any other manufacturer out there. 

The AWI, the League of Augsburg, the Aztecs, Greeks, etc are all fantastic little figures and I don't think anyone else has put out better ranges in 10mm?  The Van Dyck ranges are a level above ours but the time spent sculpting those wouldn't be viable for a business to run and they're a couple of mm taller than other 10mm's.

The fantasy are probably the most rushed out and "that'll do"(as if fantasy figures don't have to look good) of the lot, but there isn't a single pendraken figure that comes close to making me think "that's a really nice figure". And most new figures just look like conversions of the existing ones. The medievals and dark age are pretty poor, but when i see previews of figures of other periods, no noticeable difference there either. The diversity of figures is amazing- it's a pity the figures are disappointing - and i've long since given up expecting any improvement in new releases.

This seems odd as the Fantasy have got some of the most detail of all our ranges?  The extra work that Techno put into them was fantastic, down to runes carved into Dwarven axes and there's even some graffiti on the Wood Elf tree stump I think.  The Medievals and Dark Ages ranges are much older now and will probably get the revamp treatment at some point, as I'm not completely happy with them myself, especially the Norse.

... and it's pretty clear Pendraken's business model of churning out a wide range of not very good figures beat the TB Line's of spending a long time making really great sculpts, but I can't pretend Pendraken's own line of figures have ever inspired me much.

Again, we've never said that anywhere and that's clearly not our business model.  We've spent years fine-tuning the sculpting team to get the best people we can and we've spent £1000's replacing ranges that we felt weren't up to standard.  If the model was just to churn them out regardless of quality then we'd never have bothered replacing those figures for a limited return on the investment.
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Nick the Lemming
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« Reply #21 on: 22 September 2020, 06:19:55 PM »

Leon, at this point I think you're wasting time responding to someone who's frankly speaking bollocks.
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hammurabi70
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« Reply #22 on: 22 September 2020, 06:41:58 PM »

Leon, at this point I think you're wasting time responding to someone who's frankly speaking bollocks.

But then customer goodwill is the most important asset of a business and the most valuable customer is the one who voices their complaints because then you know what is wrong. I made a comment on the 6mm Yahoo group about the H&R WWII infantry, which I thought were old and tired, having been first cast in the 1970s; it seemed to have a galvanising effect.  No doubt Leon will take a view.  Personally I am here for the Korean range because everyone I spoke to said that Pendraken was THE range to buy; so far I have no complaints and can confirm the quality and may diversify into other periods.  Presumably if there are better products people will adjust their purchasing accordingly and sales figures will show the result.
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Chad
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« Reply #23 on: 22 September 2020, 06:45:44 PM »

Nick

My sentiments exactly. Leon, Nil Bastardum  Carburundum.

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Ithoriel
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« Reply #24 on: 22 September 2020, 07:37:46 PM »

I think he's entitled to his opinion but it would not seem to be one shared by others here. I suspect Leon's sales are secure in the meantime.

I want some TBLine Islamics to round out my Haradrim Army, they are large enough to fit with other fantasy stuff I have. I wouldn't use them with my historical stuff because either they'd be seven foot tall or my current troops would be five foot tall.
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mollinary
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« Reply #25 on: 22 September 2020, 08:11:48 PM »

Nick

My sentiments exactly. Leon, Nil Bastardum  Carburundum.



To quote. The Toasters’ album “Illegitimis non carborundum”!
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Dunnadd
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« Reply #26 on: 22 September 2020, 10:32:35 PM »

I think he's entitled to his opinion but it would not seem to be one shared by others here. I suspect Leon's sales are secure in the meantime.

I want some TBLine Islamics to round out my Haradrim Army, they are large enough to fit with other fantasy stuff I have. I wouldn't use them with my historical stuff because either they'd be seven foot tall or my current troops would be five foot tall.

I've bought a lot of Pendraken figures myself and I'm certainly not trying to get people not to buy Pendraken. I was just hoping to get figures with a bit more clearly defined detail and hat look a bit more impressive, though, as some posters have pointed out, that'd probably require a bit of scale creep to 12mm scale rather than pure 10mm, like with the TB Line figures
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Orcs
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« Reply #27 on: 22 September 2020, 10:55:44 PM »

I have never been able to believe that anyone would buy those figures from Warrior.

I bought some vikings once many years ago to see what they were like, as some of thier stuff is ok.  i still have them. they are lead weights in the hulls of my 20mm plastic tanks. Smiley
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Leon
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« Reply #28 on: 23 September 2020, 12:16:45 AM »

We always appreciate feedback, never any worries on that front.  I'm just not sure what the solution is here though, as moving to TB's size/style for future releases alienates everyone who buys our usual sculpts, so it's not really a viable move to look at.  We might look at converting some of the TB stuff into other Ancients/Middle Ages ranges though, that's an easier conversation to have with the sculptors.
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paulr
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« Reply #29 on: 23 September 2020, 01:02:00 AM »

Leon, I suspect the solution is to continue to produce high quality true 10mm figures Smiley

As you have indicated some of the older ranges will be reviewed in due course Thumbs up

Those in the market who want high quality true 10mm figures and exceptional service will continue to keep you and the team busy Hurry up!

Those who want high quality 12mm+ figures may have to look elsewhere Undecided

PS Dunnadd, thanks for taking the time to comment and provide some more detail on particular ranges
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