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Author Topic: Make new figures conversions of TB line figures instead of Pendraken ones  (Read 3816 times)
Dunnadd
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« on: 20 September 2020, 11:57:34 PM »

We know all new Pendraken figures are made by converting existing Pendraken figures to minimise costs. Unfortunately Pendraken figures aren't quite right. The heads are a bit big. Cavalry's horses' legs aren't right. The modelling is unfortunately not that great, again, in order to minimise costs when making the originals. Pendraken has bought up the TB line range though, which are simply better figures. So why not make new figures by converting some of the TB line figures, getting a balance between cost of modelling and quality of miniatures? Would that be possible? Or would it take so much more time to model even by converting to that standard that it'd raise costs a lot?
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Ithoriel
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« Reply #1 on: 21 September 2020, 12:15:11 AM »

Really? I prefer the newer Pendraken sculpts to the TB line ones. Each to their own.
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Leon
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« Reply #2 on: 21 September 2020, 12:15:54 AM »

This isn't something that we've ever considered to be honest.  The TB sculpts are a different style to our own so I think it would cause more problems than solutions?  We'd be asking sculptors to move away from their own styles and try to copy someone else's instead, along with using someone else's figures as a base/dolly.

We know all new Pendraken figures are made by converting existing Pendraken figures to minimise costs.

I'm not sure where we've ever said that?  The majority of our new sculpts are made using dollies, but that's basically just a mannequin that the sculptors can build on.  The recent Greeks or Feudal Japanese were all brand new sculpts: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,18228.0.html and http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,18880.0.html  Conversions are used from time to time where we want to adjust an existing figure slightly.  That applies a lot with the Napoleonic ranges, where 80% of a figure is exactly the same and the sculptor just needs to change things like headgear, epaulettes, cuffs, belts, packs, coattails, etc.

Cavalry's horses' legs aren't right.

All of the cavalry are built on existing horse dollies, as nobody wants to be sculpting a new horse every time!  I've never seen a problem with the horses though, we've occasionally adjusted a leg or tweaked a pose, but generally folks seem happy enough with our horses?

So why not make new figures by converting some of the TB line figures, getting a balance between cost of modelling and quality of miniatures? Would that be possible? Or would it take so much more time to model even by converting to that standard that it'd raise costs a lot?

It's certainly possible but I don't think it's as easy as it sounds.  Each sculptor has their own dollies and way of doing things, so we'd be asking them to start using someone else's dollies and to switch the way they sculpt to try and mimic another sculptor's style?  
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John Cook
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« Reply #3 on: 21 September 2020, 12:24:32 AM »

"Unfortunately Pendraken figures aren't quite right. The heads are a bit big. Cavalry's horses' legs aren't right. The modelling is unfortunately not that great"

I'm not sure many people would agree with your characterisation.
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John Cook
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« Reply #4 on: 21 September 2020, 12:35:38 AM »

Leon, this is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.  To confirm what you said, I've only sculpted a single line for you from scratch - the Italian CTV in the SCW range - and they were indeed originals using dollies that you provided.   
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FierceKitty
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« Reply #5 on: 21 September 2020, 12:45:57 AM »

I'm not sure many people would agree with your characterisation.

Hmmm, I wonder if somebody really means those words. People actually on this website are probably united on only three points: that 10mm is the Gods' own scale, that Pendraken do a a flagship job on them, and that their dice don't roll nerly enough sixes.
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John Cook
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« Reply #6 on: 21 September 2020, 01:31:30 AM »

Hmmm, I wonder if somebody really means those words. People actually on this website are probably united on only three points: that 10mm is the Gods' own scale, that Pendraken do a a flagship job on them, and that their dice don't roll nerly enough sixes.

To hell with dice!  Otherwise, I agree entirely.
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Nick the Lemming
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« Reply #7 on: 21 September 2020, 01:49:41 AM »

Really? I prefer the newer Pendraken sculpts to the TB line ones. Each to their own.

You're not the only one.
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paulr
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« Reply #8 on: 21 September 2020, 03:47:30 AM »

Agreed
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Orcs
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« Reply #9 on: 21 September 2020, 05:31:43 AM »

Unfortunately Pendraken figures aren't quite right. The heads are a bit big. Cavalry's horses' legs aren't right. The modelling is unfortunately not that great, again, in order to minimise costs when making the originals.

 I do not see any major issues with the Pendraken range.  I agree some ranges are older than others and in general the new ranges are better figures. Also there is the odd pose that could be more animated .

As for saying the modelling is not that great??  I suggest you look at the other 10mm manufacturers ranges:-

Figures from one range where many of the ankles are so thin they break off while painting them
One manufacturers Early Imperial Roman range where the archers are literally head and shoulders above the rest.
Single pose packs for most of their ranges.
Significantly more expensive

TB line are lovely figures, but they are slightly larger figures, but if that's what you prefer then stick with the TB range




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Westmarcher
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« Reply #10 on: 21 September 2020, 10:32:42 AM »

We know all new Pendraken figures are made by converting existing Pendraken figures ...
For example, the Prussian SYW standard bearer and Prussian SYW Grenadier Officer?

Unfortunately Pendraken figures aren't quite right. The heads are a bit big. Cavalry's horses' legs aren't right. The modelling is unfortunately not that great, again, in order to minimise costs when making the originals.


Don't take the reaction in the above posts too personally. Good honest opinion and ideas is and must surely be welcome on the forum. However, perhaps being more specific regarding the Pendraken ranges you were looking at would help us to see what's on your mind? It is a rare thing to find any figure 'quite right' in the whole figure market regardless of scale (e.g., Baccus 6mm horses are way too small with the riders looking as if they are sitting on dogs, 18mm AB Figures Napoleonic infantry and Eureka SYW infantry bayonets are way too long being as long as the figure's legs, etc.). That is nature of wargaming figures - features are exaggerated and not in perfect proportion and subject to different sculptors' styles. I'm currently painting Pendraken AWI and 'yes' some of the heads and hats are slightly large but they are good sculpts nevertheless imo. I'm not a fan of those Pendraken standing horses with 4 straight legs - you see that a lot throughout some ranges (no doubt same sculptor, Leon?) - even one bent leg would have been good. I love the charging pose in the SYW range - dynamic and robust - I would be happy if the cavalry had no standing horses at all but, heh ho. But we all have poses we dislike (years ago I started a topic on the very same subject). Still, I'd be interested to know what figures you had been looking at because generally in the ranges I've been making my purchases, I find the level of detail to be very good.
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sultanbev
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« Reply #11 on: 21 September 2020, 01:59:37 PM »

As an artist I can tell you the worst order you can get is to do some art in someone else's style.
I've occasionally had painting orders to do figures "like someone else's" and it's the worst type of commission.
So I can assure you asking a sculptor to sculpt figures in the style of someone else is gonna end badly!

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Gwydion
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« Reply #12 on: 21 September 2020, 08:34:55 PM »

As an artist I can tell you the worst order you can get is to do some art in someone else's style.
I've occasionally had painting orders to do figures "like someone else's" and it's the worst type of commission.
So I can assure you asking a sculptor to sculpt figures in the style of someone else is gonna end badly!


Tom Keating and Wolfgang Beltracchi did all right painting in someone else's style (apart from the prison time I suppose!)

But I have no problems with Pendraken figures as they are thanks.
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Sunray
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« Reply #13 on: 21 September 2020, 10:56:04 PM »

Tom Keating and Wolfgang Beltracchi did all right painting in someone else's style (apart from the prison time I suppose!)

But I have no problems with Pendraken figures as they are thanks.

+1 to Gwydion (and welcome to the Forum- I like your sense of humour).  Grin For Forum newbys +1 is our equivalent of  social media "like".
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Dunnadd
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« Reply #14 on: 22 September 2020, 01:09:59 AM »

For example, the Prussian SYW standard bearer and Prussian SYW Grenadier Officer?
 

Don't take the reaction in the above posts too personally. Good honest opinion and ideas is and must surely be welcome on the forum. However, perhaps being more specific regarding the Pendraken ranges you were looking at would help us to see what's on your mind? It is a rare thing to find any figure 'quite right' in the whole figure market regardless of scale (e.g., Baccus 6mm horses are way too small with the riders looking as if they are sitting on dogs, 18mm AB Figures Napoleonic infantry and Eureka SYW infantry bayonets are way too long being as long as the figure's legs, etc.). That is nature of wargaming figures - features are exaggerated and not in perfect proportion and subject to different sculptors' styles. I'm currently painting Pendraken AWI and 'yes' some of the heads and hats are slightly large but they are good sculpts nevertheless imo. I'm not a fan of those Pendraken standing horses with 4 straight legs - you see that a lot throughout some ranges (no doubt same sculptor, Leon?) - even one bent leg would have been good. I love the charging pose in the SYW range - dynamic and robust - I would be happy if the cavalry had no standing horses at all but, heh ho. But we all have poses we dislike (years ago I started a topic on the very same subject). Still, I'd be interested to know what figures you had been looking at because generally in the ranges I've been making my purchases, I find the level of detail to be very good.

The only ones i've bought have been dark age, medieval and fantasy (and ironically for someone criticising them, i've bought a tonne of them) , but tbh they all look pretty much the same - all have the same faults -  arms and faces that just don't look believable and don't look like any effort went into sculpting them, hands that are just a blob with three or four lines pressed into it, horses whose legs don't look remotely like any real horse's legs, either in shape or in the way they bend (not sure why you think the running ones are any better than the standing ones in that respect), arms and legs that are too thick if they've any clothing on them etc. To be fair some look ok painted in a unit if you don't look at them too closely (though i'm often guessing when painting, and having to interpret what is meant to be what, as the detail isn't great, and they never look great).

The fantasy are probably the most rushed out and "that'll do"(as if fantasy figures don't have to look good) of the lot, but there isn't a single pendraken figure that comes close to making me think "that's a really nice figure". And most new figures just look like conversions of the existing ones. The medievals and dark age are pretty poor, but when i see previews of figures of other periods, no noticeable difference there either. The diversity of figures is amazing- it's a pity the figures are disappointing - and i've long since given up expecting any improvement in new releases.

When i get Pendraken i'm generally thinking "well they're cheap and there's not much variety available in 10mm fantasy or medieval figures for that troop type" rather than "these are really nice figures, i want some of those".

I will certainly buy some of the TB line from Pendraken ( i bought some from TB line before they went out of business) - and it's pretty clear Pendraken's business model of churning out a wide range of not very good figures beat the TB Line's of spending a long time making really great sculpts, but I can't pretend Pendraken's own line of figures have ever inspired me much.

Just take a look at the Pendraken medieval European figures and the TB Line ones (I did screenshot photos of two similar types to post, but then remembered i'd have to upload them to some other website, then html them in)


« Last Edit: 22 September 2020, 01:37:19 AM by Dunnadd » Logged
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