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Author Topic: (late) middle age rule set  (Read 296 times)
zap86
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Posts: 13


« on: 30 July 2020, 10:20:23 AM »

Hi guys,

I would like to know what do you suggest as rule set for (late) middle age period for:
- skirmish battles (15 mm or similar)
- large scale battles (6mm, Crecy, Poitiers, Cool Brossinière, Castillon etc ..)

It can be of course 2 different rules.

Thank you

Olivier
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Raider4
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« Reply #1 on: 30 July 2020, 10:38:22 AM »

Don't know what size - how many figs/side - you want for skirmish, but I like Lion Rampant for this.
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Steve J
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« Reply #2 on: 30 July 2020, 10:41:53 AM »

Lion Rampant excellent choice for skirmish sized games IMHO. As for larger battles, I'm enjoying Neil Thomas' Ancient & Medieval Wargaming.
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Big Insect
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« Reply #3 on: 30 July 2020, 11:19:33 AM »

For larger scale games - and it depends upon what you mean by large (?) many of the commercial sets of rules such as L'art de la Guerre or MEG will work pretty well - you can extend the numbers of battles/divisions to allow you to build up larger forces. Poleaxed - from the Lance & Longbow Society is another good set for larger battles - it has a late C15th focus but will work for most Western European LB era 'late medieval' games.

A radical alternative might be to look at the adaptions of Bloody Big Battles that are available. This is not my area of knowledge - but maybe Shedman might be able to comment, comment as he very successfully adapted BBB for a Romans in Britain set of games.

Cheers
Mark
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mmcv
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« Reply #4 on: 30 July 2020, 11:29:12 AM »

There are a couple of generic "ancients" rulesets that would work reasonably well. I've played a fair few medieval games with them (Crusades so a little earlier than your aim but principles would transfer).

Hail Caesar is pretty commonly used, scenario driven, buckets o dice style game with a lot of flexibility. If you like putting together scenarios and tweaking armies it could work well. They're a bit like a toolkit you can use to set up and play the way you wish.

To the Strongest is grid based and uses playing cards (or chits or dice at smaller scales) to drive the action. It's popular on the competition circuit so has well defined points systems and generally quick to learn and play and still give a fun game.

I'm preferring TtS at the moment as it gives a bit more consideration to medieval warfare and there's an upcoming expansion into renaissance that will cover really late stuff. Though if you're keen on a particular conflict there are some more specific rule sets out there I'm sure that will be more flavourful. Saying that I'm planning at some point to do a scenario "three ways", e.g. a battle with HC, TtS and a period specific rule set for comparison.
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zap86
Cadet

Posts: 13


« Reply #5 on: 30 July 2020, 03:04:24 PM »

Thank you for your answers.

I have tried DBA, DBM, AdG, FOG but not satisfactory for different reasons.

I have read nice comments about the Lion Rampant and will look in details.

I will also investigate To the Strongest rules.

Any comment about Warmaster?

Olivier
 
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zap86
Cadet

Posts: 13


« Reply #6 on: 30 July 2020, 03:14:14 PM »

Actually, I do not know what MEG nor Ancient & Medieval Wargaming, so I will also look at it.

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mmcv
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« Reply #7 on: 30 July 2020, 03:27:47 PM »


Any comment about Warmaster?
 

I haven't played it myself, though my understanding is that Hail Caesar is a bit of an evolution of it - it's by the same author and uses the same general mechanics but in a much more flexible, modern and relaxed way.

Out of interest what are your rule set criteria?

e.g. Do you plan to play solo or with a opponent or group? Do you prefer technical/competition style rules, or more relaxed "gentlemanly" style? Do you like researching and planning out real battles or just playing pickup games with the armies to hand? Is direct historical simulation important to you, or getting the right "feel" for the era and armies? Or even just want a simple set of rules that you can adapt to whatever you want to play at the time?
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Norm
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« Reply #8 on: 30 July 2020, 03:42:20 PM »

I am just trying to have a go with Sword & Spear by Great Escape Games for some Wars of Roses battles. Very innovative and seem to work nicely. I found the rules did not allow archers to interpenetrate back through the melee troops, but a simple house rule sorts that.

Basic Impetvs 2 is also something to consider as are Historical Kings of War.

I noticed on the rear of the latest Wargames Illustrated magazine that the pending release of Swordpoint 2 is advertised, which as I understand it has been influenced by their recent Milites Mundi rules, which were specifically designed around the 10mm scale.
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zap86
Cadet

Posts: 13


« Reply #9 on: 30 July 2020, 03:59:23 PM »

I definitely prefer the “gentlemanly style”, to play “real battles”, avoiding what I call the micro-tactics systems (like sorry guys, my stand is 0,5 mm away so your charge cannot go through or because rule 5 Alinea 7b-2ii said you cannot in that particularly case and then I win..), that you can play even if you are not the specialist of the rule, easy to play.
Something that respects the historical simulation as much as possible, and where you can play a large scale battle (I would say a Crecy-like battle in an afternoon, with numerous stands of figures).
It can be simple as long as it respects historical.

I have not played (yet) Polemos Marechal d’Empire from Bacus, I just read it but I would imagine something like this in the format and / or simplicity but transferred to the middle age.

Hope it helps…

Thank you

I will look and Swords and Spears as well as you other suggestions
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mmcv
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« Reply #10 on: 30 July 2020, 05:08:11 PM »

I definitely prefer the “gentlemanly style”, to play “real battles”, avoiding what I call the micro-tactics systems (like sorry guys, my stand is 0,5 mm away so your charge cannot go through or because rule 5 Alinea 7b-2ii said you cannot in that particularly case and then I win..), that you can play even if you are not the specialist of the rule, easy to play.
Something that respects the historical simulation as much as possible, and where you can play a large scale battle (I would say a Crecy-like battle in an afternoon, with numerous stands of figures).
It can be simple as long as it respects historical.

I have not played (yet) Polemos Marechal d’Empire from Bacus, I just read it but I would imagine something like this in the format and / or simplicity but transferred to the middle age.

Hope it helps…

Thank you

I will look and Swords and Spears as well as you other suggestions

Yeah I think certainly many of the rules suggestions here should match that. I'm with you on generally wanting to play what is fun and makes the most sense in the scenario rather than getting bogged down in prescriptive rules. I understand the need for them in tournament play, but prefer systems that can allow a bit of flexibility in casual gaming to do what makes the most sense at the time rather than anything too "gamey".
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fred.
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« Reply #11 on: 30 July 2020, 05:31:00 PM »

Our group enjoys To the Strongest - but you have to accept the gridded nature. But once you do it removes all the micro managing.

Hail Caesar is good - a generic set covering a wide period, but gives a good high level game. As said above I would go to this before Warmaster. While I have played lots of WM after a while you see more flaws than good. HC is definitely an evolution of WM.

Lion Rampant is a much small scale, a large skirmish, not a battle

All 3 (4 inc WM) have command friction in them, in that they all have activation mechanisms, so its rare for all your troops to do something every turn, but sometimes they can do lots in a turn. I like this, others really don't.



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FierceKitty
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« Reply #12 on: 31 July 2020, 02:38:35 AM »

I definitely prefer the “gentlemanly style”, to play “real battles”, avoiding what I call the micro-tactics systems (like sorry guys, my stand is 0,5 mm away so your charge cannot go through or because rule 5 Alinea 7b-2ii said you cannot in that particularly case and then I win..), that you can play even if you are not ta specialist in the rules, easy to play.
Something that respects the historical simulation as much as possible, and where you can play a large scale battle (I would say a Crecy-like battle in an afternoon, with numerous stands of figures).
It can be simple as long as it respects the historical.



A newbie, but so wise. Smiley
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