Base sizes

Started by Dragoon, 21 June 2020, 07:21:59 PM

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Dragoon

What I want to know is for AoA, WSS, AWI, SYW and Napoleonic games what is :-
A) the base width and how many figures in the ranks
B) the base depth and how many ranks deep
Same for cavalry and artillery.

This is for Pendraken figures and the bases from experience thesiethat is best for playing a game
Regards

Mike L

Scorpio_Rocks

Tend to 30x20 2 ranks of 3 files for infantry. 30x20 with 2 or 3 cavalry.

"Gentlemen, when the enemy is committed to a mistake - we must not interrupt him too soon."
Horatio Nelson.

Glorfindel

I use single base battalions for WSS games (2 ranks of 12).

Cavalry on same size bases, 9 figures in one rank.

(Both inspired by examples seen on this site).

paulr

For AWI I use Volley & Bayonet at Wing scale so 2-3 bases to a battalion

Infantry - 75mm x 38mm, 2 ranks of 8 figures
Skirmishers - 38mm x 38mm, 6 figures in 2 loose ranks
Cavalry - 75mm x 38mm, 6 figures in a single 'rank'
Artillery -  38mm x 75mm, 1 gun and 4 crew
Commanders - 38mm x 38mm, 1-4 figures depending on 'rank'
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Quote from: Dragoon on 21 June 2020, 07:21:59 PM
What I want to know is for AoA, WSS, AWI, SYW and Napoleonic games what is :-
A) the base width and how many figures in the ranks
B) the base depth and how many ranks deep
Same for cavalry and artillery.

This is for Pendraken figures and the bases from experience thesiethat is best for playing a game

A lot of it will depend on the rule system you want to play. I've not yet games in the eras you mentioned but here's some general advice.

Typically I've found that you need 8-10mm square of space per figure. This means on a 40x20mm base you can comfortably fit 8-10 figures in two ranks. A 30x20 base you could do two ranks of three. 25x25 or 30x30 would fit three figure files in two or three ranks.

Those seem to be some of the standard basing sizes used for flexible basing, but some people prefer the more diorama style big bases, eg 60x40, 80x40, 50x50. These let you do a mix of figures and command and terrain. I suggest looking in the photo sections on the forum for ideas, loads of excellent examples there.

Having spent a lot of time trying to decide on basing for my own projects all I can say is get a pack of figures, some bases and blutac and start putting together configurations until you find one you're happy with.

Another consideration is how many figures you're willing to paint. If you think nothing of painting hordes of figures then lots of small bases with densely packed troops will look good, but if not then looser ordered troops or diorama bases may be better.

Dragoon

It seems that most people are usin at least 8mm to 10mm per figure for infantry which is the same size as used for 18 mm AB figures whereas I've always thought infantry fought shoulder to shoulder.
Thanks for the input and I'll take a look at ant photos on this sigh.
As an aside Bacchus figures are based 12 x 2 ranks on a 60 mm base which is equal to 4 x 2 ranks on a 20mm base.
To do the same 4 x 2 ranks with Pendraken figures a 25mm wide x 20mm deep but I will try this.
Sadly I bought a French  and Austrian army packs so I will need Brits and prussians.
WAS  my interest but I have to sort rules out first and my preference is for a solo playability instead of simultaneous moves, a movement by phase and initiative as no one makes 16mm wise bases I shall try 15mm wide for 2 figures and probably 20mm  deep to allow for 2 ranks

I'll post pics if they look ok.
Regards

Mike L

paulr

If you speak nicely to Mr Leon he can arrange any size bases you want in 2mm MDF :)
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fred.

You really do need to try this out for yourself, to see what looks right to you. Once you know that you can then work up total figure counts etc.

I tend to go with 8-10mm per figure, which gives a reasonable density but not shoulder to shoulder. It does depend on poses but in general you can up the density by 50%, you might need to trim some of the cast on bases to do this. You will also have a lot more figures to paint!
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Quote from: Dragoon on 21 June 2020, 07:21:59 PM
What I want to know is for AoA, WSS, AWI, SYW and Napoleonic games what is :-
A) the base width and how many figures in the ranks
B) the base depth and how many ranks deep
Same for cavalry and artillery.

This is for Pendraken figures and the bases from experience thesiethat is best for playing a game

For my Pendraken SYW figures, I base 8 foot figures in 2 ranks (four in each rank) on a 1 inch (25mm) x 1 inch square (25mm) base. That's as much as you can squeeze in to get that Close Order look. The Austrians were fine but one or two bases of the odd Prussian foot figure required to be slightly shaved to fit (probably because I didn't glue in the other 3 in the correct place). However, with my newly acquired Pendraken AWI figures, I doubt I would manage that because these are slightly bigger than the SYW range.

My SYW cavalry are fixed 3 to a base using the same base size for infantry. I choose to base my artillery on a 1 inch (25mm) wide base but a deeper base is required (can't recall off hand).

If you wish to see my system in the flesh as it were (sorry, I'm a crap at posting pics on this forum) you could join the Honours of War forum where I have posted photos or simply send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send photos. 
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

DecemDave

Confused.  you will be.
I completely echo what others replied about trying it out with samples and bluetack (although I prefer tacky wax as its transparent).  Because it eventually comes down to what looks right for you.  What is technically right for scale unless you go 1fig:10men or lower) looks odd to most gamers because napoleonic infantry will all be single ranked figures. (as each figure already models the ranks of men) . And most of us go 10mm to get the mass/big battle  effect.  Perhaps we should really stick to pike phalanx games as napoleonic illustrations at the time are clearly linear.

For Napoleonics , I looked at about a dozen rulesets .  The big differences are rules at brigade level (eg Blucher, FOGN) where your brigade units will probably spend most of the game in practice in one formation anyway and those at a more tactical level (Black powder, Lasalle,..) where you will definitely need 4 or 6 bases per battalion unit to show line/march column/attack column/square. Typically 10mm figs seem to use a 30mm or 40mm base width or their inch equivalents for US players and rules.   20mm squares are also in use but I find lots of them too fiddly for my old pudgy fingers.  For the more rigid periods like WSS (and ancients/medievals) I would definitely be tempted to the one big scenic base = 1 unit approach. And some carry this to Napoleonics with a two large base unit which can represent the 4 formations with a bit of imagination  (google search Stevens Balagan)
Then there are the rules like General de Brigade , La Feu sacre where British units have a different frontage of base or figures/base to try and represent how a two deep line formation is longer than a three deep.  This was  particularly vexing me so I started another thread here which you might care to peruse.   And ended up deciding to stick with 40mm wide bases.  4-6 bases a unit.  (but note my older French and Russians are on 30mm/1") . Luckily  3 40s and 4 30s have the same frontage.
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,19739.0.html 

All this mayhem (compared to the DBX standard effectivelty imposed on ancients) is confusing to newcomers and all sane wargamers who hate the idea of rebasing.  So most rulesets today (and later edition of older ones like GdB2, Black Powder2, Battaille Empire) have a section on how to fudge your existing based army to play their rules providing you are consistent and both sides agree.   Often its as simple of using the Base width as the unit of measurement.  Sometimes its about creating similar frontages in line.  And if you have a mixed collection like me you can always shift to the rulesets (ESR, Age of eagles) where the unit size is represented by different width bases so your 30mm ones become standard units and your 40mm ones become large!!

No I havent played all these rules yet just wanted to be sure i could.   The Sam Mustafa series (Lasalle, Blucher) looks like the first I will try.


Good luck

Dave

Dragoon

It appears that Blucher is an army game where the manoeuvre unit is the division a good game but you could move the printed cards around  to remind you what they represent. To me it's a board game could just as easily played on a hex mat.

Lasalle on the other hand is a battalion level game, and well liked.

The rules that I like are titled " Rules for Napoleonic Warfare "  by Trevor Halsall.   A battalion level game on its 5th edition.

Every time attempts a speeding things up ends up throwing the baby out with the bath water.
So I'm putting firing and moving under firing and under moving the relevant rule can be found under each section.

Skirmish rules also tend to be too loose as frontages seem to compress into a crowd to get through a gap in a wall then expand to a skirmish line without taking into account the movement distance or the slowing down to squeeze through the gap and the target presented to musketry or canister.
Just to write down a rule to make a player think about what can or can't be done.
Everything seems easy until you have to write it down.
Again the 28th foot , about face and fire. We know that isn't the way to do it, but you need say 60 figures on there own bases, form 2 ranks and work out how it was done. It's in the 1720 to 1745 drill book and shows how to complete the evolution with every man in the same position in the line and able to fire to the rear.

I'll just have to see the space needed for the Prussians that I have and I've worked out how to deal with the extra base size I may need.

The base size is crucial because ,if the frontage of a battalion is 25% larger than true scale then a brigade of 4 battalions will have to more considerably further to take its place in the division, a small battalion of 20 figures in a single line should be 100mm but is actually 125mm
To take its place as the second in line it will will have to move an extra 50mm or 2". To take position so I'll have to measure a 2 figure base in this case will represent 50 men or 1 figure = 25 men so instead of 20 figures it would be 16 figures   =  the same 400 men.
Regards

Mike L

Last Hussar

My WSS are 3x2 on 20mm square.
Romans are 6x2 on 40 by 20mm
ACW is 1 row of 4, with 1 or 2 behind of 3 or 2
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Dragoon

What rules are you using?
Regards

Mike L

WeeWars

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WSS/ACW for BP
ACW; F&F, TCHAE
Romans, Warmaster
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