Spanish Flags for the Peninsular War

[TinyTinTroops]

Hi Folks
It's Tony of TTT back again with yet another plea for some help on flags for a new Pendraken range.

As you may have seen on the Peninsular non-kickstarter, two sheets of Spanish flags are included (the British & Portuguese are already done) and the plan was to have one for the regular regiments and the second for the regional regiments. Napoleonics are not one of my great interests so my source material is limited but, according to those, there seems to be very little known about the flags of Spanish units other than some general descriptions and a small number of surviving examples.

I have the Osprey books on Napoleonic flags, Keith Over's book and a bunch of bits on websites that hasn't taken my researches much beyond the limited info in the Osprey. I have found some flag designs for the SYW (on Kronskaf) that match the general style described for the regular flags and hoped to be able to verify that these were, if nothing else, a 'best bet' to reconstruct the Napoleonic flags from but next to nothing on the Regional flags.

Is there anyone out there that has more information on Spanish flags of the period or can point me to other resources that are easily available. I'd like someone more knowledgeable than me (which shouldn't be difficult) to bounce ideas off if I do have to 'reconstruct' where evidence is limited and/or come up with ideas that I can run with.

I don't read Spanish myself but I do have a mate who does so Spanish sources are OK.

Tony

[Aksu]

Hi,
It seems to be difficult to find much info as there were so many new flags needed fter 1808. Going with a variant of the 1762 pattern is a safe bet, and almost anything goes for the various volunteers.
https://www.pinterest.cl/gardner6641/spanish-army-1808/flags/
has a nice collection of inspiring flags.
I'll see i I can find a bit more using my faltering spanish.
( The first thing we were taught at school was to pick any Federico Garcia Lorca poem and memorise it. Apparently performing that would endear you to locals and they would give you food and drink.)
Cheers,
Aksu

[TinyTinTroops]

Thanks Aksu

Some of those images are usable as templates but many don't say what the unit is so are of very limited use. As you say though, they give an excellent spread of possibilities. If I could only find some confirmation of source to validate them it would be great - unfortunately Pinterest doesn't have that most of the time.

It is also a good starting point to other sites/sources by clicking on the images and following links I have found a similar site that has some flags with an ensign so I might be able to ID the unit.

I have Partridge & Olivers 'Nap. army handbook' that lists units and that is a guide I'm using to help ID stuff. What I have noted is that many of the 'Volunteer' units and even some Militia regiments were actually regulars and may have had flags based on the regular model but with variations (such as mottoes).

Tony

[sultanbev]

The two books from Ken Trotman on the 1808-1809 Spanish have colour prints flags for many individual regiments, including a written list for militia:

Spanish Infantry of the Early Peninsula war, Uniforms Organisation and Equipment of the Line and Militia, Gerard Cronin & Stephen Summerfield, Ken Trotman Publishing (2014) ISBN 978-1-907417-42-9
Spanish Cavalry of the Early Peninsula War, Uniforms Organistion and  Equipment of the Line Cavalry, Guard and Artillery, Gerard Cronin & Stephen Summerfield, Ken Trotman Publishing (2016)
ISBN 978-1-907417-74-0
The latter  even has sapper and marine flags!

Mark

[Aksu]

This site might be useful
https://sites.google.com/site/banderasmilitares/banderas/espana/ejercito-de-tierra/infanteria-borbones-hasta-gi
The Spanish defence ministry library has quite a bit of useful stuff, this is quite interesting... oops actually not really, but it gives an overview of the topic.
http://bibliotecavirtualdefensa.es/BVMDefensa/i18n/catalogo_imagenes/grupo.cmd?path=74731
And as Mark said, the Cronin & Summerfield books are good.
Cheers,
Aksu

[Aksu]

If one had unlimited funds this might be good. But as I was just fired today an hour ago from my day job (thanks Mr Covid) I'll give it a pass 135 quid is a bit steep.

MANZANO, Antonio, Las banderas históricas del Ejército español

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9788478235032/banderas-hist%C3%B3ricas-ej%C3%A9rcito-espa%C3%B1ol-Antonio-8478235035/plp

Cheers,
Aksu

[TinyTinTroops]

Hi Asku

Bad news, my sympathies, for what its worth.

I have seen that book quoted on at least one website but, as you say, outside my budget I'm afraid.

The websites seem useful but I think the first one only repeats some I've got already, most are much earlier than 1808 too.

I'll get to the others later today.

Tony

[Aksu]

A few more

https://sites.google.com/site/banderasmilitares/banderas/espana/ejercito-de-tierra/infanteria-g-independencia-hasta-g-civil?tmpl=%2Fsystem%2Fapp%2Ftemplates%2Fprint%2F&showPrintDialog=1

Aksu

[John Cook]

A pair captured by the French.  The sources mentioned above are as good as it is going to get I think. 

[TinyTinTroops]

Hi Mark

I'll look into that later today. Just about to start my share of the housework by washing the kitchen floor.

Tony

[paulr]

Aksu, my sympathies on the job front

[fsn]

Sorry Aksu.

Hope you get sorted in short order.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Aksu, that's rough, hope you are okay

[Leon]

But as I was just fired today an hour ago from my day job (thanks Mr Covid)...

Sorry to hear that Aksu, is that a permanent thing or a temporary lay-off until the Covid situation is over?

[Aksu]

Thanks chaps, much appreciated. I’m afraid it is permanent, a quarter of the 150 people in the company were laid off. The good thing is that we’ll get paid until end of July but no work obligations once you hand over your tasks to the survivors. The company has (civil) aviation as one of it’s main customers so no wonder the cash and demand situation is in a bit of a free fall.
Anyway, never been fired before, always managed to press the eject button myself before that, so now I am one experience richer!
So, like the Spanish army, they can beat us but they can’t keep us down! On to victory! Or Death? Umm... Victory please, If you don’t mind
Cheers,
Aksu