VE Day

[Ithoriel]

I suspect much of what you say is true mmcv but ...

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

And you can't learn from a history you don't remember.

"It was reserved for GCSE History, which I chose not to do because I enjoyed history far too much." I get that

For "Higher" History - similar to "A" level in England and Wales - the curriculum chosen for our school  covered UK history from 1816 - 1913 and Scottish history from 1358 - 1603.

There were many possible curriculum choices schools could opt for and the exam paper covered them all.

I answered questions on the boundaries of the Roman Empire, the armies of Gustavus Adophus and the Code Napoleon.

Despite my history teacher's obvious belief that his star pupil (his words, not mine) had gone mad, crashed and burned I got an "A" grade, the highest possible. I think he awarded me the schools History Prize out of sheer relief

[Heedless Horseman]

Being a child of the 1960's, I was raised on a heady mix of 'Biggles', (who did NOT 'Time Travel'   ) ,and 'The Victor' comic...a publication much superior to the competition... {Matt Braddock, Killer Kennedy and Sgt. Miller and the back page of real VC stories...vs Cpt. Hurricane and his 'Ragin' Furies' ?) Lol!
A little later, I was able to get war books from the 'Adult' section of my library...(Sadly they did not have 'That' stuff or my 'education' would have been Much Improved !!!). As a result, I saw some of the horrors of warfare, (in photographic form), quite early. Having seen, for instance, a 'fried' German being 'hooked' out of his tank turret, in much later years, pics of the 1st Gulf War did not shock, just sadden...the Sun's "Gotchca!" evoked anger...and some very stupid people singing "Hey, Mr. Taliban" , drunk in a British Pub, disgust.   I rather think those early influences were a good thing, not the PC view at all. War is not 'Heroic' but it happens, and such knowledge can help people have to ''get real' and 'accept' current fears like terrorism or Covid19.  

Also, as a kid, my favourite record was a 45 (!!!) of 'Real Aeroplane Sounds', including 'a dogfight over the English Channel' !!!  My favourite movie was 'Battle Of Britain' ! Now, I just have to hear 'THAT' engine sound and I am transfixed, looking for the Spitfire...though I always had a quirky preference for Hurricanes!    (I doubt whether I can tell the difference between a Merlin and a Griffon...but I don't care! LOL!   I find it rather sad that I can see a young Dad and son, (Mum is excused!) , totally oblivious to Their History flying overhead...Oh well, I am an older bloke!

The VE day celebrations are a good thing...just maybe, they will install a curiosity in the young...it was not just  a 'street party'...but, for some, an end to fear and loss for a time. There are , sadly, very few of that generation left, and some, like my Ma, cannot remember much...
I rather think that the remembrance of fortitude in adversity may be needed in the future... but, WTH, I am glad some had 'enjoyment of the day'!

[toxicpixie]

Very true, Hammurabi (and possibly Rommel!).

[mmcv]

I suspect much of what you say is true mmcv but ...

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

And you can't learn from a history you don't remember.

Oh I 100% agree, I think it's important to take the lessons from history and not forget them, and I think as a culture we generally have. Barring a few fringe elements, most people know about Hitler and the Holocaust and the Atom Bomb and what they stand for. There is enough cultural awareness around the war that you can reference aspects of it and people will understand, even if they don't know details. Even if much of that comes from popular media, e.g. a lot more people understand what "Dunkirk Spirit" is after the film came out.

One thing I do think more should be done of is teaching the stories of history, the narrative and the human elements, rather than getting bogged down in detail. I know that put me off a lot in school. I remember one thing we did was The Normans and the conquest of Ireland and it was over 15 years later that I realised it's actually quite an interesting period in history but was always put off it after school.

I know there are many teachers out there who do try and instill a bit of the interesting bits rather than just facts and figures but I suspect a lot of people had a similar experience of being turned off and seeing history as a bunch of boring dates. I was lucky in that I'd an interest in history, especially ancient history, myself from a young age and it didn't knock that out of me, but for many I can see how they could be permanently put off history. That's why I always try to focus more on telling an interesting story if someone asks about something historical.

I suppose another aspect is modern history has an abundance of information on every detail and aspect of what happened. So it's easier to get sucked into the details and get a bit lost in them, rather than taking in the grand sweep of the story of what happened, then delving deeper into bits that interest you, if they do.

The VE and later VJ day can be a good time to tell those stories and the broader strokes, but no point making people feel stupid that they didn't know this date or that battle. Not that I'm accusing anyone here of doing that, but it's an easy trap to fall in when you've a vast store of knowledge and others profess ignorance.

[steve_holmes_11]

Oh I 100% agree, I think it's important to take the lessons from history and not forget them, and I think as a culture we generally have. Barring a few fringe elements, most people know about Hitler and the Holocaust and the Atom Bomb and what they stand for. There is enough cultural awareness around the war that you can reference aspects of it and people will understand, even if they don't know details. Even if much of that comes from popular media, e.g. a lot more people understand what "Dunkirk Spirit" is after the film came out.

One thing I do think more should be done of is teaching the stories of history, the narrative and the human elements, rather than getting bogged down in detail. I know that put me off a lot in school. I remember one thing we did was The Normans and the conquest of Ireland and it was over 15 years later that I realised it's actually quite an interesting period in history but was always put off it after school.

I know there are many teachers out there who do try and instill a bit of the interesting bits rather than just facts and figures but I suspect a lot of people had a similar experience of being turned off and seeing history as a bunch of boring dates. I was lucky in that I'd an interest in history, especially ancient history, myself from a young age and it didn't knock that out of me, but for many I can see how they could be permanently put off history. That's why I always try to focus more on telling an interesting story if someone asks about something historical.

I suppose another aspect is modern history has an abundance of information on every detail and aspect of what happened. So it's easier to get sucked into the details and get a bit lost in them, rather than taking in the grand sweep of the story of what happened, then delving deeper into bits that interest you, if they do.

The VE and later VJ day can be a good time to tell those stories and the broader strokes, but no point making people feel stupid that they didn't know this date or that battle. Not that I'm accusing anyone here of doing that, but it's an easy trap to fall in when you've a vast store of knowledge and others profess ignorance.

I think the trap of School history is that the learning must be examined.
Lists of Kings, dates of events and "One bloody thing after another" are all easy to examine (and to pass if you're a rote learner).

Issues like beliefs and values of society in general, parties, movements and what drove economic and societal changes are much more interesting but far more difficult to examine at O'level.

[Ithoriel]

Ah, yes! The Dunkirk Spirit.

That moment when our island nation stood all alone against the might of a Europe united under the German yoke.

A plucky island alone .... except for our ally Canada ..... two nations alone, just Britain and Canada .... and Australia ..... Just Britain and her two allies Canada, Australia ... and New Zealand ... three .... three allies Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa .... and the Indian sub-continent ... the Free French ... the Free Poles ...

That moment when a great confederation of nations around the world stood against the fascists!

[FierceKitty]

And thanked most of them by dumping them in the sewer afterwards.

[toxicpixie]

And don't forget the vast amounts of gear flowing cash on the nail into the UK from America - the Army's deficit in weapons was
Made good in about a week by US shipments. They just didn't want non-standard stuff so the Home Guard got massive numbers of auto-rifles, Light and Medium MGs and SMGs - ironically making them one of the most heavily armed auto-fire formations in the world!

Presaged the Volkssturm five years early, and is now virtually mythologised away as old men with broom handles shouting "bang" :/

[Ithoriel]

And don't forget the vast amounts of gear flowing cash on the nail into the UK from America - the Army's deficit in weapons was
Made good in about a week by US shipments. They just didn't want non-standard stuff so the Home Guard got massive numbers of auto-rifles, Light and Medium MGs and SMGs - ironically making them one of the most heavily armed auto-fire formations in the world!

Presaged the Volkssturm five years early, and is now virtually mythologised away as old men with broom handles shouting "bang" :/

Talking of non-standard weapons ... they have my favourite WW2 British unit .... our only armoured train!

[mmcv]

I think the trap of School history is that the learning must be examined.
Lists of Kings, dates of events and "One bloody thing after another" are all easy to examine (and to pass if you're a rote learner).

Issues like beliefs and values of society in general, parties, movements and what drove economic and societal changes are much more interesting but far more difficult to examine at O'level.

Very true. When I was at school things tended to be moving towards a more coursework based approach with a mix of exams and more open ended projects contributing to the overall grade. Not sure how well that progressed in the years since and if it did result in a broader approach to learning than just memorising key dates. I'd hope so, but don't know anyone involved in secondary education to ask. Maybe some on this forum are.

Ah, yes! The Dunkirk Spirit.

That moment when our island nation stood all alone against the might of a Europe united under the German yoke.

A plucky island alone .... except for our ally Canada ..... two nations alone, just Britain and Canada .... and Australia ..... Just Britain and her two allies Canada, Australia ... and New Zealand ... three .... three allies Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa .... and the Indian sub-continent ... the Free French ... the Free Poles ...

That moment when a great confederation of nations around the world stood against the fascists!

Haha! Yes I suppose there is a lot of that, though my understanding of it was more an idea of people pulling together to face adversity rather than any particular insular nationalistic spirit. That might just be because I'm not a mainlander though so have a slightly different perspective.

I have noted there seems to be more coverage of the broader involvement of allies in recent years, e.g I remember reading a number of articles a little while back about the Poles involvement in the Battle of Britian, as well as many others amongst the allies.

Always good to remember that people from all over were able to work together against adversity when dangerous nationalistic sentiments run high.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Talking of non-standard weapons ... they have my favourite WW2 British unit .... our only armoured train!

Manned by the Poles for a while..

[flamingpig0]

I once worked with someone who had been educated up to the age of 18  but believed that the Chinese attacked Pearl Harbour and that Russians Atomic bombed Japan. It would be air to say she had a 'broad brush ' approach to history.

[Orcs]

When I did my History "O"level it included a term on "The rise of Communist China".  I was not looking forward to it, but The History Teacher a Mr Egan really taught it well, and I thoroughly enjoyed it .  It did go into the beliefs and reasons for the change quite well.