Peninsular War Spanish

[rangerdad]

Not wishing to clog up the new Not Kickstarter thread, I thought I'd ask for advice from better informed forumites here instead

I have some knowledge on Brits and Portugese but am a complete novice on Spanish uniforms

Will the grenadiers have the embroidered bag on their bearskins ?
What was the differences between Bourbon and Regional fusileers ?
What are the differences between Provincial infantry and National Infantry ?

[Steve J]

Good questions and would love to know the answers. I'm going to check my Blandford's book on the War later on to see if that has any info in it.

[sultanbev]

I've already asked Leon this, as most wargamers I know wouldn't identify their Napoleonic Spanish by the terms Bourbons or nationals.

Apparently Bourbon Spanish are the 1805-1808 uniforms in bicornes, long tailed coats, with grenadiers in "tall mitres".

The Nationals are the 1812+ British supplied uniforms in stovepipe shakos.

The others are for the middle period 1809-1812 ish, which is probably the most interesting, colourful and varied polygot army you could find in Europe outside of the Balkans. The "chistera" is the top hat or round hat. Having said that I've no idea what teh Regional Fusiliers & grenadiers look like either.

Mark

[Leon]

As Mark has said above, the Bourbon army is the earlier period with the formal long tailed coats and bicornes.  The regionals are the ragtag bunch in the middle period with an assortment of uniforms, and then the national army is the newly attired 1812 troops with the British supply.

I've already asked Leon this, as most wargamers I know wouldn't identify their Napoleonic Spanish by the terms Bourbons or nationals.

We can call them something else if there's a more appropriate terminology for them.

[John Cook]

I've already asked Leon this, as most wargamers I know wouldn't identify their Napoleonic Spanish by the terms Bourbons or nationals.

Apparently Bourbon Spanish are the 1805-1808 uniforms in bicornes, long tailed coats, with grenadiers in "tall mitres".

The Nationals are the 1812+ British supplied uniforms in stovepipe shakos.

The others are for the middle period 1809-1812 ish, which is probably the most interesting, colourful and varied polygot army you could find in Europe outside of the Balkans. The "chistera" is the top hat or round hat. Having said that I've no idea what teh Regional Fusiliers & grenadiers look like either.

Mark

Leon has modified the list on the other thread, which should make it more understandable.  The Spanish army of this period is very complex and the answer to many questions is often 'nobody knows'.

When I put the notes and reference material together I tried to stick to terms used in the material I was using.

The 'Bourbon army' figures are in the Pattern 1805 uniform of the old Spanish army, bicornes, short tailed coats, long for officers (long tailed coats generally were last used on the Pattern 1797 uniform).  They comprise fusiliers in a bicorn and grenadiers in a bearskin with the characteristic 'flame' at the back, breeches and gaiters with knapsacks, cartridge pouches etc as per the regs.  These figures represent the Bourbon army that was involved in the invasion of Portugal in 1807 and the resistance to the French occupation in 1808.  There were, incidentally, at least two regiments still in the 1797 uniform in 1808, and 12 in the blue Pattern 1802 uniform.

The 'Regional' figures reflect the remains of the old regular army that still formed an important part of the five regional armies (Ejércitos Regionales) established towards the end of 1808.  They are still in the pattern 1805 uniform, but it reflects the 'distressed' state they had become by c1809.  Trousers replace breeches and blanket rolls replace knapsack, some will haversacks and civilian water bottles and so on.

Also included are some types of the volunteer and provincially raised troops that can't be sourced from the 1809 and 1815 ranges, notably militia in civilian clothes and provincial types with the Chistera hat, such as those raised in Seville, Andalucia, Navarre and Catalonia for example.

Finally, there are the uniforms authorised for the infantry of the 'Ejercito Nacional' in 1811.  These were British supplied and started to arrive in Portugal in mid-1812.  They never replaced other types and styles completely.  So although the Spanish army wore uniform, is was not.

For a concise guide I'd recommend the three Osprey volumes by Rene Chartrand which cover the army from 1793 to 1815.

Hope this helps.

[Steve J]

Very useful info as I fancy the ragtag look for the Spanish. Time to start pondering an order...

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Get a copy of Armies of the Napoleonic Era by Von Pifka, rather old and sometimes inaccurate, but covers almost everyone. My copy has paint stains all through it. 

[sultanbev]

We tend to just refer to the Spanish uniforms as:
a) 1808 era
b) junta period
c) British supplied

"For a concise guide I'd recommend the three Osprey volumes by Rene Chartrand which cover the army from 1793 to 1815."

Yes, seconded, got them, and the corresponding Portuguese ones. For Ospreys they are quite outstanding. When I build my Spanish force up to a Corps level, I'll probably just pick all the random units highlighted in the texts of those books and field them.

Mark

[howayman]

i use the Active Service Press books (John Rafferty).
Really good simple guides.

[Glorfindel]

These links might be helpful:

http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/2015/06/el-ejercito-y-la-armada-1-parte-en-1808.html
http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/2015/06/el-ejercito-y-la-armada-2-parte-en-1808.html
http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/2015/07/el-ejercito-y-la-armada-3-parte-en-1808.html

(Three part series with lots of colour)


These are found on this amazing blog which has huge amounts of information - just takes a bit of looking:

http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/


Some more options:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_uniforms_of_the_Napoleonic_Wars

https://balagan.info/peninsular-war-painting-guide-spanish-infantry
https://balagan.info/peninsular-war-painting-guide-spanish-cavalry


Hope this helps - certainly enough to keep you painting for a long time !


Phil

[rangerdad]

Very helpful info - thanks all

[John Cook]

These links might be helpful:

http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/2015/06/el-ejercito-y-la-armada-1-parte-en-1808.html
http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/2015/06/el-ejercito-y-la-armada-2-parte-en-1808.html
http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/2015/07/el-ejercito-y-la-armada-3-parte-en-1808.html

(Three part series with lots of colour)

Bueno has written a lot on the Spanish army.  His books comprised a principal part of the material I used.  To be honest though, I have a poor view of sites that download books like Canovas' does.  Copyright seems to mean little these days.   

[Terry37]

The Peninsula, my all time most favorite theater for Napoleonics. There is tremendous opportunity for creating some truly colorful and awesome looking regiments for both the French and their allies, and for the Spanish. After doing these two armies the British and Portuguese are pretty boring!!!

For the French allies, you have Hessian's, Polish, Nassau, Naples, Swiss, Hanoverian's, Italians, Frankfurt and my favorite the Princes Battalions composed of troops from various small German principalities so each company wore a different uniform. I can provide uniforms for all of these. And French grenadiers wearing white greatcoats, or the 13th Cuirassiers in brown coats faced maroon, or Dragoons in brown coats faced pink or orange!!! There are some nice Bouquay cards for the French, and don't forget he Garde de Paris (both regiments served in Spain). And of the course, "the Canaries" - Nuechatel (Swiss) in yellow ocher faced red!!!



Garde de Paris, 1st Uniform


Garde de Paris, 2nd uniform


Neuchatel infantry and artillery


French Dragoons in brown coats (When uniforms wore out locally made brown cloth was used)


Princes Battalion

The Spanish are even more fun. Most gamers fall victim to the early 1805 uniform which was not really worn much in he breakout years 1808 to 14. From 1808 to 14, no two regiments hardly dressed eh same, even with the British supplied uniforms. During this period they wore captured French, modified captured French, home spun. modified 1805 and British - which was dark, blue, light blue a mix of the two, and facings in red, green. black, yellow and white - some with lapels added, or a French shako, etc. it was not willy-nilly however and here are records of what many regiments wore. The best book on the subject is "Uniforms Espanoles de la Guerra de Independencia" by Jose Maria Bueno Carrera. However, this is a really expensive book, usually in the several hundred dollar range (USD). The text is all in Spanish, but the plates are excellent. Here are a couple to give you an idea.







If you will contact me via email, I can probably share all you'll need. I have studied and collected material on the Peninsula since the 60's.

Terry

[Steve J]

Some very useful info there Terry .

[Scolty]

Thanks for the useful info posted. I contributed to the 1809 project - great figures (still in the bags!) as I'm attempting to finalise my 10mm ACW project and looking to do the Indian Mutiny - see separate post. Tonight I will be looking through my Peninsular books and thinking about what I would need. Order will definitely be in before May end. I think 2021 will be my year for Naps!