First SYW steps

Started by Not Drowning, Waving, 10 December 2019, 12:36:13 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Not Drowning, Waving

Hello all.  Have only ever collected Naps, in scales from 28mm, 20mm, 18mm, and now my favourite 10mm, but seeing the 17th & 18th C figs here I thought it was time to burst out of the shed.  Even changed my user name after a band here in Oz.  Feels great to be looking at something else!

I really like the SYW sculpts.  Detailed, elegant, defiant.  I love the officer sculpts and little things like the fact that drums have cords(!) I bought Duffy's Military Experience in the Age of Reason and his book on Fred, which the forum seemed to think were good reads, hopefully to arrive soon.  I had a look at the amazing Kronoskaf site which is almost too much info at the moment.  But I have a heap of ultra basic (read stupid) questions which I was hoping people could answer:

1. Of the 5 foot poses offered, March Attack, Marching, Advancing, Port Fire, Firing, what do most people use for their units and why?  Has anyone used a specific pose for a specific unit?  Am interested in your choices.
2. What is the Port Fire pose all about?  Is it designed to be behind or beside a firing figure or stand alone?
3. There is a generic kneeling firing pose.  Did the front line kneel in a firing line or is that pose used for something else? 
4. From my limited knowledge there were basically no skirmish screens in SYW, although there were light infantry units.  If they didn't skirmish what did they do?
5. French are offered "without turnbacks" and "with turnbacks".  Is this a development in uniforms, ie were turnbacks brought in later, or are they for particular regiments?  Can you mix them?
6. Russians are offered "waistcoat" and "coat".  Is this a summer/winter thing, or type of unit thing, or when were they used?  Can you mix them?
7. Every line of minis has gaps.  What are the gaps in this fantastic line? 
8. What do people do to plug those gaps?  Can AWI or earlier 18th C lines be used?

Off topic but  I also really like the 16th C Poles.  Who did they fight most often?  16th C Ottomans in the Siege of Vienna?  Have to get me some winged Hussars, but might leave that to another day.

Thanks for any help with the above.

FierceKitty

10 December 2019, 12:56:00 AM #1 Last Edit: 10 December 2019, 01:11:07 AM by FierceKitty
Don't know the answers to all your (far from stupid) questions (refreshing to see such interest!), but:

* Light infantry are repeatedly described as operating as nuisances in rough going, both on Bohemia and in America, which to this day are much forested.
* A lot of the appeal for me is in relative uniformity of pose. Given how often linear firefights develop, I've gone for the standing and shooting pose with all my regular foot (Freikorps and Croats are another story; maximum variety here), sword upright for dragoons, and charging with extended sword for cuirassiers (it's a command figure, but Leon was good enough to cast me five units of them, honour be to his name). I do wish there were more poses for hussars, however.
* A niche request, but a harpsichordist and a flautist would look extremely attractive in the camp. I  suspect that the colonial aspect is under-represented too (India, West Africa, America). I think a scene with a naughty Prussian running the gauntlet would also be a good camp vignette.

Duffy's book on the Austrian army is also good reading, and makes you want to cheer for Maria Theresa too. The editing is contemptibly poor, mind you.

Do remember that grenadiers almost never carried standards; they were almost always as hoc "converged" units put together from parent regiments. For line foot units, by the way, I use Irregular Miniatures colours, since they carry bare poles which can be given downloaded flags. In scale they match Pendraken well, though the poses are less attractive and they're a lot more expensive, despite their claims.

* Poles can also slug it out with Muscovites, Swedes, Tartars, Zaporozhian Cossacks, other Poles (there were a few rebellions), and the Empire (one tiny war led by an unauthorised Austrian who thought a distant blood connexion would rally support for his claim to what he failed to realise was an elective throne). These armies can all be done, though a bit of proxying is necessary for Russkies and Cossacks, and they're all fun.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

Not Drowning, Waving

Thanks FK!

That would be a harpsichordist playing the Goldberg Variations, all 30 of them, letting the lads cease marching for a bit? 

Only to be woken by the baroque version of Suzie Quatro's Devil Gate Drive when it was time to move on...


FierceKitty

Mmmm, I hope the last thing I hear in this mortal state will be the Goldbergs.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

FierceKitty

Oh, the Russians - the coat was green, the weskit scarlet. It would make a very odd mixture.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

Techno

Quote from: Not Drowning, Waving on 10 December 2019, 01:29:14 AM
Only to be woken by the baroque version of Suzie Quatro's Devil Gate Drive when it was time to move on...

That'll be a damn ear-worm for the rest of the day. %-(

Cheers - Phil

Glorfindel

Has been mentioned already but uniformity of pose seems to very much convey the right impression
for the SYW.

I have chosen the 'marching' pose - personal preference but probably because the other poses appear
to reflect a single moment of action rather than something which looks effective for the whole battle.
When this was chosen, all of my Prussians rank & file used the same pose.

Porte fire.   Perhaps good for a rear rank behind a firing pose.

Turnbacks.   Both versions would be fine.   My understanding is that coats were turned back just for
marching not battle (same for all Regiments).

Russians.   You are right - coats worn during the winter but stored on Regimental wagons in the
summer.

Hope this helps.  

Phil




steve_holmes_11

Quote from: Techno on 10 December 2019, 07:24:13 AM
That'll be a damn ear-worm for the rest of the day. %-(

Cheers - Phil

A new battle march for Frederick?

QuoteI lead the angel pack on the road to sin
Knock down the gates!
Let me in. Let me in
Don't mess me 'round, cause you know where I've been

Not Drowning, Waving

Hello Phil, Fierce Kitty and you other musical types.

Thanks for the explanations (and ear-worm wriggles).  Seeing the poses as points in a drill makes more sense now.  And FK mixing both would be an oddity (but maybe not for NCOs?).

But I am a bit confused about some poses which I didn't see at first (then again I am easily confused).  Only the Prussians have Tricorne Musket left side (SYP6) and Grenadier Musket left side (SYP12).  Why is that?  It seems to line up with other scales' depictions of March Attack.  I really like the variation of poses in the PEN range, but can't work out why left hand musket holding is confined to Prussians (and also mysteriously SYR16 Russian Observation Corps Grenadier marching).  Are there plans to introduce these poses for other infantry?   

And now to basing.  Sadly lots of the pics on the forum are Photobucket blurry, blocked, or just plain absent.  Uber-Noob question: what do you do?

Westmarcher

Quote from: Not Drowning, Waving on 11 December 2019, 08:22:23 AM

And now to basing.  Sadly lots of the pics on the forum are Photobucket blurry, blocked, or just plain absent.  Uber-Noob question: what do you do?

For Close Order foot, 8 March Attack posed figures arranged in 2 lines on a 25mm x 25mm base with each battalion consisting of 4 bases (that's what you call real Close Order!  :) ). If you find that too fiddly, 30mm is an option.
For light infantry and dismounted cavalry (can use the Jager figures for these), 5 dispersed figures on a 25mm base, 4 bases per foot battalion, 3 bases for dismounted (the fourth base is the mounted command base which is placed at the rear of the dismounted unit).
For horse, 3 cavalry figures on a 25mm x 25mm base, 4 bases to a regiment.
Artillery on a 25mm wide base with a greater base depth (can't recall off hand - 30mm to 35mm depending on size of gun). I also usually only use 4 crew per gun.
Individual brigade and wing commanders are mounted on a 20mm diameter round base, with the commanding general, an aide and a foot officer on a 30mm diameter base.

My favoured SYW rules are Honours of War. With the above basing I use the 15mm scale QRS. For larger games games I can cut each unit down to 3 bases thus releasing the left over fourth bases to build additional composite units - when I do this I can then use the actual 10mm scale measurements in the rules. My basing is also suitable for Maurice, Field of Battle and Black Powder.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Not Drowning, Waving

Thanks Westmarcher that is very helpful.

My napoleonics are based 8 to a stand 25mm x 20mm, so I am completely on board with what you suggest.  The explanations about jaeger & dismounted cavalry are good to know.  I guess this was an era where dragoons really were dragoons and dismounted to fight!  Am hoping to learn more when the Duffy books arrive.  A question before they do: which cavalry dismounted?

I did find out something on another forum about the March Attack pose that seems so different from other manufacturers.  Turns out in British 1764 Manual the pose is named "recover" and permits rapid movement to "present" (fire) or charge etc, and was used to prepare for attack.  That manual is suggested to be indicative of earlier drill. Apparently there were some variations in this preparatory pose: British drill had the musket closer to the face, but the French had something more similar to the sculpted pose.  The postings didn't say what the position was with other armies but it is hard to imagine that some similar preparatory pose was not used.

If the above explanation is right the pose described as "March Attack" makes a lot more sense to me.  It is also one of the few with bayonet which is a must. Does anyone know whether this explanation for the pose is right?