The Battle for Heimsdorf - a BKCII AAR

[Steve J]

An AAR of sorts of a trial game played over the weekend, with the fighting taking place in an almost completely BUA. Not entirely successful as you will see, but interesting nonetheless:

https://wwiiwargaming.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-battle-for-heimsdorf-bkcii-aar.html

[Techno]

Interesting comments, Steve.

Cheers - Phil

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

All makes sense, each section for itself I guess?

[Ithoriel]

Interesting AAR.

It may not make a great game but it seems to me you've recreated the essentials of city fighting rather well.

There's a reason generals prefer not to do it if they can help it!

[Steve J]

It certainly had that frustration and attritional nature of city fighting, but it certainly wasn't fun. The same can be said for fighting through minefields, or trying to cross a river, which is why I tend to steer clear of these types of scenarios.

[bigjackmac]

Steve,

Damn you, man, I was just getting into it when you shut it down!

So, I'm with Jonathan in that your bad back has been good for us (but, for your sake, I hope heals up quick), and I'm with Ithoriel in that this is the reason forces do what they can to avoid fighting in urban areas.  Having said that, sometimes it's unavoidable, and I was really enjoying the fight, it seemed to be going exactly as I figured it would.  Of course I wasn't there with you, so I wasn't aware of your expectations for the fight and how they weren't being met, so I must default to your 'on the field' judgement

For what it's worth, and simply my opinion on the matter, but I think it would run counter to the nature of fighting in urban areas if you messed with Recce or Arty to make them more favorable.  First, non-organic recon elements (responding to higher-echelon mission/information requirements) tend to move to the urban area then foe around it and past (or sometimes even sealing it from the rear/flanks) while the infantry moves up.  The infantry halt outside, then send in rifle units (platoon- or even squad-sized) reconnaissance patrols.  If/when they make contact, a good commander falls them back, pounds identified enemy positions with supporting fires, then assaults, probably still gets chewed up.  A bad commander falls the recon patrol back, launches the attack, gets chewed up, falls back, AND THEN pounds identified enemy positions with supporting fires

The point regarding arty is that you've got to pull back in order to call it in.  It's not just the short sight lines/danger close nature, it's the 'canyon' effect caused by all the buildings.  It's impossible for guns to hit targets inside (past) the first line of buildings, and nearly so for howitzers.  The only ones that can really do it are the mortars, but then they're in danger because, in order to do it, they've got to be close enough to crank the tubes almost perpendicular to the ground, and even then they typically don't have the weight of shell to punch through/do real damage to sturdy roofs/buildings.  So you pretty much have to pull out, pound, and go back in, and savvy enemies have watched for the pullout and reacted appropriately (either going deep into shelter, or pulling back themselves, then infiltrating back in once the supporting fires lift).

My thoughts on playing out urban fighting in higher-echelon games (one base=one platoon/company/battalion) is that you've either got to be okay with some punishing rules and a lot of abstraction to stay at that echelon, or you actually play a game within a game, where you're playing BKC/Spearhead/KISS/5Core Brigade Commander/etc... until a unit (Company it Platoon) enters into a fight in town, then you move to a lower echelon of rules (IABSM/5Core Company Command or Chain of Command/Bolt Action) to resolve that piece of the battlefield.  There is a reason house-to house street fighting is called "the Corporals' War."  The close-in, six-sided nature of the fighting means that command and control devolves, must devolve, to the lowest levels.  At that point, Platoon Commanders' major job is deconfliction of unit boundaries and direct support, and making sure his platoon has the required gear, chow, supplies, and ammo, while Company- and Battalion Commanders are either figureheads sitting in their CPs, or are up at the front line, exposing themselves to great risk, providing combat leadership to those ten men to his left and right. 

I suppose you can tell where I figure the CC/BC should be; some will say he can't really control the fight from up on the line.  I say there's nothing to control at this point; the situation is no longer fluid, all that's really left to decide is where/when to commit his reserves, and when and which units to rotate out of the line, both of which he's better positioned to do in a city fight from on the line.  In my humble opinion.

Anyway, sorry, that rant kinda got away from me!  Thanks for posting, I hope to see more soon!

V/R,
Jack

[Steve J]

Hi Jack,
no problems about the 'rant' as you make very valid points. For me sadly the game wasn't much fun and some of the mechanics didn't seem to work quite right for fighting in a BUA, hence my early curtailment. I do hope to re-visit this at some point as it's a nut I'd like to crack. I've had a look at 5 Core Company Command as an option and need to re-read my Bolt Action 2 book, to see if either may give me the sort of game I'm after. Currently I think skirmish level will scratch that itch, so maybe BA is the way to go.

Re: artillery, in an attack on Oosterhout during Market-Garden, the barrage consisted of 4 field regiments, a medium regiment, heavy 4.2" and 3" mortars, all to shift a Company or so of SS, 5 x 20mm AA, an 88 and 3 tanks. Again not much fun for either player but perfect for a historical re-fight, which is why for my game I didn't go pre-planned barrage.

Thanks once again for the points raised which will certainly aid my deliberations .

[fred.]

Hi Steve

Just to make sure I'm reading the table correctly - the green grassy areas, with occasional houses are all classed as BAU? The grey areas are open, as are the fields.

This is a lot of BAU, especially for the forces in question. And I assume you are playing at 1 stand = 1 platoon? I think you are partially running across a problem we have found, that to represent things on the table (eg roads, which are at the figures scale) they become seriously out of scale to the ground scale. And your town squares become huge spaces.

A long time ago I looked at the size of a BKC base vs the actual area in the town I lived in at the time http://www.kerynne.com/games/BaseArea.html and there where about 30 houses under the base, with a couple of roads and a small open 'square'.

Mechanistically - we have found the hitting on 6s and then a save makes troops in BAU very hard to shift - and we were playing this with a much smaller BAU, and with lots of attackers who had LoS. Not your problem of everyone being in the BAU and having no LoS.

We also found that Engineers with Flamethrowers didn't really help. Yes you got more dice, but nowhere near enough more dice.

As Jack very eloquently talks about the difficulties of fighting in BAU - I do wonder if BKC addresses it in the right way, and if player's expectations are right. Thinking about Rommel (which is 1 stand = 1 company)  BAU areas (which are approximately 1km square in the game) are very tough to shift defenders from. But you know this from the rule for BAU, and you can directly counter this rule with engineers (you never have enough engineers). In BKC I'm not quite sure if the outcome is what is right - or if it just feels like more should happen as it feels the attacker is putting in a lot of effort (dice) and the defender can save most of them off.


You mention looking at BA - I wouldn't bother. It's ranges are so out of whack with the footprint  of units that you can have troops at the back of a unit out of range compared with those at the front. Chain of Command might give you a better feel fo the gritty street fighting - but I seem to remember from playing CoC that troops in hard cover were very hard to shift. And you could have a platoon fighting over a couple of houses.

[Steve J]

Hi Fred,
you're right in your summary of my terrain. I too think that I simply had too much BUA and a case of less will be more for the next game. Your other points are along the lines of my experience, so nice to see I'm possibly not barking up the wrong tree.

I tried CoC but just never got on with it, so had a look at BA2, just for some fun skirmish games. I'm not expecting much from them, but need to give them a go.

As with Jack, thanks for the comments which really help me think how to address fighting in a BUA .

Steve J.

[fred.]

Thinking about BA - I think either doubling the ranges, or playing with 15mm figures would probably solve a lot of the problems with everything seeming a bit cramped.