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Author Topic: Bocage  (Read 794 times)
T-Square
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« on: 19 June 2019, 02:54:29 AM »

Page 34 describes bocage as linear terrain.  AFVs without Cullen devices need three orders to move through.  One to contact, one to cross, and one to move off.

We were playing with bocage tonight and had a couple of questions.

(1) During the AFV cross move, is the vehicle up on top of the embankment so if the move off command is failed they are hanging out in the open.  If they are there and are shot at what is the to hit?  Bocage was notorious for tanks crossing since their soft under bellies were exposed as they crossed over the top of the bank.

(2) Can an Infantry unit take cover in bocage as they would in woods?  I.e. can Infantry treat bocage as area terrain as if it were woods?  Bocage is quite wide when compared to standard linear terrain such as, hedges, fences, and stone walls.  There is plenty of room for an Infantry unit to fine refuge amongst the branches and foliage of the bocage.
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ianrs54
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« Reply #1 on: 19 June 2019, 08:40:04 AM »

On the infantry bit - I'd say only if the infantry have properly dug in, the "hedges" are very substantial.

IanS
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Big Insect
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« Reply #2 on: 19 June 2019, 09:00:57 AM »

Good points

1). I think the 'hanging in the open' bit seems sensible. As the intention is to leave the tank 'stuck' and exposed. I'd suggest that they are treated as in the Open and a +1 d6 to all enemy AT weapons shooting at them within a 90 degree arc of the front of the target tank. It also represents the vulnerability of crew getting out to help remove obstacles & free tracks etc.
(one for the Errata)

2). I'm inclined to say No, as looking at Bocage equivalent in Cornwall (I've not had a holiday in Normandy for centuries!) it can really depend on what's going on with a specific bit of Bocage. Between 2 fields it can be quite dense (I agree) but on the edge of a road it can be more of a steep bank with the road dropping away and relatively little cover at the top of the bank, with most of the shrubs, trees and hedge down the bank to the road. Still dense and a nightmare for tracked vehicles, but not as much cover as it first appears.
I'll have a look at the implications of making it area terrain like a Wood. The first thing that comes to mind is the impact on air attacks and also on visibility more generally. It might have to be one of those things that you agree at the start of a game ... once I have sorted out the implications and method of digging-in (I still cannot believe that after all these years of playing both BKC, CWC and FWC that there's never been a clear definition - hey ho) I think that might help things. As (as Ian states) if the infantry can dig-in it might give them the equivalent cover but without needing to resort to a specific designation for Bocage.

Thanks
Mark
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #3 on: 19 June 2019, 10:24:30 AM »

I think that of you make Bocage area terrain you have to deal with AT guns and Panthers hidden "in" the hedgerow. Something it was never thick enough to do.

FWIW:
1. Sherman approached the bocage and stops
2. Sherman crosses hedgerow and stops
3. Opp Fire! All hell lets fly at the Sherman from AT gun(s) in the field corners as well as infantry with fausts lining the hedgerow - the latter probably being on a flank anyway
4. Sherman moves off or returns fire - but it will have been KO'd in all probability
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T-Square
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« Reply #4 on: 19 June 2019, 06:37:16 PM »

Mark,

Thank you.

Terry
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T-Square
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« Reply #5 on: 03 July 2019, 02:32:46 AM »

Weíve had some discussion and are looking for some authoritative direction concerning shooting and bocage.

Infantry is not a problem.  Once their front edge is against the bocage they can see through and shoot from it as they would with other linear terrain. (The Troops scamper to the top of the bocage and let loose.)

The discussion really has divided us with tanks and other vehicles.  Here is the breakdown:

A.  One group says treat it as linear terrain.  Roll your front up against the bocage and shoot as normal.

B. The other group says that because bocage is thick, dense, and very tall vehicles and tanks canít shoot through it.  Their guns get hung up trying to traverse.  (They can see just canít shoot.)  The bocage must be breached before it can be fired through.

C. A compromise would be to allow shooting with a restricted arc.

D. Low profile tanks should not be able to shoot in any case.  They are just too low and the bocage is way too high.

We have movement sorted out now.  (Tonight my Jackson got perched on top of bocage hanging in the wind.  Couldnít get an order to it and it finally got smoked big time by a Tiger I.)  We just need to sort out shooting through it by vehicles and tanks.

Another issue is tanks perched on top of bocage.  They should probably be restricted to just moving.  They are stuck on top rocking about and would have extreme difficulty in bringing guns to bear.
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