Churchill Crocodile

Started by Cross698, 21 May 2019, 12:29:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Cross698

Quote from: fsn on 24 May 2019, 08:25:24 AM
I suspect that most German soldiers were not bothered about the mark of tank bearing down on them.


True, but wargamers are!

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Quote from: fsn on 24 May 2019, 08:25:24 AM
I suspect that most German soldiers were not bothered about the mark of tank bearing down on them.


They would be when the shots bounced off !
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Raider4

Quote from: ianrs54 on 24 May 2019, 08:14:51 AM
Except that almost all VII's were Crocodiles...

Eh?? Are you sure? Doesn't sound right to me.

Raider4

Quote from: fsn on 24 May 2019, 08:25:24 AM
I suspect that most German soldiers were not bothered about the mark of tank bearing down on them.

Is that in the same way that all Allied soldiers thought every German tank was a Tiger, and every gun an 88?

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Raider - that is based not the photographic evidence, there are III's IV's and VI's in Cleve, but no VII. Ok that isn't the best, but seems to be correct anecdotally. The reason for II and IV was to improve the AT capabilities of the troops, he 6pdr being better at that than the 75mm. Find any pictures of VII in tank rgt's is very difficult.

IanS
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Cross698

All Mk VIIs had the crocodile fittings added at the factory, even if it wasn't to be used in this role. There were earlier models of crocodile, but thought all crocodiles that hit the beaches from 79th Division were Mk VIIs.

Raider4

Yeah, I can believe that all Crocodiles are Churchill VIIs. It's all VIIs are Crocodiles I have a problem with (in the same way that all thumbs are fingers, not all fingers are thumbs . . .).

There is a page on the Flames of War website that lists all British tanks in NWE at various points, but I can't locate it at the moment.

Cross698

I've seen images of Mk VIIs deployed as tanks, not crocodiles. My understanding that they were deployed into Churchill Regts as replacements.

Dr Dave

From what I've read in the 9th RTR history (I think it was the 9th?) all of the troop and Sqn HQs had MkVIIs by war's end - so that's a 1 in 3 ratio or thereabouts.

But then there are Regts in Normandy that have their VIIs taken off them for issue as Crocs in the 79th AD.

fsn

Quote from: Raider4 on 24 May 2019, 08:46:22 AM
Is that in the same way that all Allied soldiers thought every German tank was a Tiger, and every gun an 88?
Sort of. I can see that Germans who had faced Crocodiles and escaped, would have been very wary of any oncoming Churchill, just in case, but I can't see them debating if the approaching  behemoth is a Mk VII or a Mk IX.
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

Dr Dave

Many say that mark viiis never made it into service, but I've seen a picture of an viii in a twatted Jerry village.

Raider4

Quote from: Raider4 on 24 May 2019, 09:57:44 AM
There is a page on the Flames of War website that lists all British tanks in NWE at various points, but I can't locate it at the moment.

Found it: link. It does look like the VII was in the minority compared to the Crocodile, but they were there. Probably as replacements, as mentioned. III and IV seems to outnumber them both greatly either with 6-pdr or 75mm.