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Author Topic: Buildings and Trenches  (Read 552 times)
Steve J
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« Reply #15 on: 14 May 2019, 02:00:36 PM »

We use auto-suppression as a default in our games for the reasons stated, but any hits count.
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Jimbo94
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Posts: 28


« Reply #16 on: 14 May 2019, 02:12:06 PM »

On way to improve the suppression rate from artillery or airstrike and (potentially) mortars is to go for the optional 2 hits = auto-suppression optional rule.
It speeds up game-play as well - which is primarily why it was 'invented' - especially for large multi-player games.
We play this as standard at Slimbridge/Berkeley.

With Mortars you'd only apply it to Soft targets - you could argue that it could apply to Vulnerable (open topped vehicles) as well maybe.


If I'd been given the chance, after considering the pros and cons of the various rule mechanisms,  to re write the official rules I think me and my gaming group would decide to still use optional rules from 3 versions ago and not actually write said rules into the new version!!
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Cross698
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 109


« Reply #17 on: 14 May 2019, 03:54:55 PM »

On way to improve the suppression rate from artillery or airstrike and (potentially) mortars is to go for the optional 2 hits = auto-suppression optional rule.
It speeds up game-play as well - which is primarily why it was 'invented' - especially for large multi-player games.
We play this as standard at Slimbridge/Berkeley.

With Mortars you'd only apply it to Soft targets - you could argue that it could apply to Vulnerable (open topped vehicles) as well maybe.
I think that this certainly the way agaist troops in fortifications and buildings. I take it this is 2 unsaved hits or just 2 hits?
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Big Insect
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« Reply #18 on: 14 May 2019, 04:53:27 PM »

Just a minimum of 2 hits - and if only 1 hit is achieved you dice for suppression as usual against that.

Deduction would apply to the 1 hit but not the 2+

It's an optional rule - but one well worth trying - but it only applies to area fire (although some players also use it with Mortars against soft targets as well).
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Cross698
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 109


« Reply #19 on: 14 May 2019, 04:59:38 PM »

OK thanks
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Big Insect
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« Reply #20 on: 14 May 2019, 10:02:19 PM »


If I'd been given the chance, after considering the pros and cons of the various rule mechanisms,  to re write the official rules I think me and my gaming group would decide to still use optional rules from 3 versions ago and not actually write said rules into the new version!!

What optional rules are these Jimbo? Are they from BKCI? If so I don't have a copy as I started on BKCII.
Can you share some thoughts on these please?

Thanks
Mark
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Jimbo94
Cadet

Posts: 28


« Reply #21 on: 15 May 2019, 09:50:11 AM »

I'm pretty sure the optional auto  suppression rule has been kicking around for a long time. Could have been an early download, a thread on the old forum etc.
I have played BKC I & II, the latter many times but haven't played a game for about 5 years and I don't have access to the earlier copies or the countless print offs I took from when the old forum was active.

Anyway my first game of V4 is tomorrow so I will have a better feel for how things work out then.

My own general feeling is it should be hard to get infantry out of buildings by firing at them alone, so if there is an issue, it  lies in not getting the balance right in the assault rules so that troops can get up close and dislodge the enemy from the buildings by close combat.
In close combat relative troop quality and experience would become increasingly important I think

Regards




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Cross698
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 109


« Reply #22 on: 15 May 2019, 12:08:44 PM »

It was certainly an option in BKC v2 page 135 - any unit taking 1 or more hits fro off table artillery or air assets is auto suppressed, those already suppressed roll for fall back. In v4 it is 2 or more.  Smiley
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Big Insect
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« Reply #23 on: 15 May 2019, 02:59:16 PM »

Well ... it's now an 'official' option  Cheesy

I'd be interested, as always Jimbo to here about your inaugural BKCIV game.

I hope it goes well and is fun

Mark
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Jimbo94
Cadet

Posts: 28


« Reply #24 on: 16 May 2019, 12:04:01 AM »

Worked through a mini example of an assault on a town and a couple of units in trenches before my game tomorrow.

Green Russians in defence murdered the assaulting Heer who had air strikes, smoke , tank support and numerical advantage!!
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Big Insect
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« Reply #25 on: 16 May 2019, 11:08:25 AM »

Interesting

Was that an inability to suppress the Russians? Or to cause any casualties? Any troops in a BAU are tough to winkle-out.

I'd suggest that multiple attacks from air, and artillery and suppression fire from the tanks and attacking infantry should put the Green troops to flight.

I'd be interested to hear a run through?

Thanks
Mark
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Jimbo94
Cadet

Posts: 28


« Reply #26 on: 16 May 2019, 11:33:49 AM »

Interesting

Was that an inability to suppress the Russians? Or to cause any casualties? Any troops in a BAU are tough to winkle-out.

I'd suggest that multiple attacks from air, and artillery and suppression fire from the tanks and attacking infantry should put the Green troops to flight.

I'd be interested to hear a run through?

Thanks
Mark



Hi
In my first round of shooting one of the infantry units was indeed supressed and forced to fall back but as I was practicing an assault on the next initiative I charged in, to see what happens as it was just a practice
So maybe I didn't do enough prep

If it occurs in the game proper I will send a run through just for clarification
Thanks
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Big Insect
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« Reply #27 on: 16 May 2019, 11:53:52 AM »

Assaulting even Green troops holed-up in a BUA if they are not suppressed is a very risky business.

More 'prep' is critical - try using the tanks to deliver initiative fire first, then the attacking infantry open-fire in the initiative phase on the enemy, ahead of dropping air strikes and then artillery, and then choose whether to shoot again with the Armour and the Infantry and then initiate the assault.

BKCIV is primarily a combined arms game - the concept is that no 1 arm (infantry, armour, artillery or air) will win you a game on their own.

Mortars are also a great addition to your assault force - they can be good at suppressing and knocking out infantry especially.
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