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Author Topic: Somewhere in France 1940  (Read 793 times)
Big Insect
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« on: 27 April 2019, 11:49:32 PM »

Today (Sat 27th April) I took an old friend through his first game of BKC.
He's been a devoted Flames of War player until v.4 was released and has almost as many 15mm WW2 armies as actually existed!!!  Grin

I chose a 1,500pt a-side Encounter Game - on a 6 x 4 table - as our test, using his 15mm units.

He chose Germans (good choice) and used a list that I had constructed, that had:
1 x CO (CV10)
1 x HQ (CV9)
1 x FAC (CV8)
1 x FOA (CV8)
1 x Recce - a kfz13 - (a lovely little open-top armoured car)
6 x PzkpfwII's
1 x StuGIII
6 x Heer Infantry (one with an A/T rifle upgrade)
1 x Infantry Support - MG-34/42 + a Truck
2 x A/T Guns 37mm, PaK-35/36 + 2 Trucks
3 x 105mm Le FH-18 off-table guns
1 x Ju87 - Dive Bomber - Stuka
With an Army BP:7

The French consisted of:
1 x CO (CV8)
2 x HQ (CV8)
1 x FAO (CV6)
1 x Recce - Panhard A/C
3 x Char-B1
1 x FT-17 MG
1 x 25mm AT gun portee
6 x Regular Infantry + 6 Trucks
1 x Infantry Support MG Hotchkiss + Truck
1 x Infantry Support AT 37mm + Truck
1 x Infantry Support 81mm mortar + Truck
1 x 20mm AA (man-handled)
3 x 75mm off-table artillery
Army BP:8

We both chose mobile deployment and the Germans won the initiative and chose to deploy and chose to move first.

All went well until the German HQ rolled a command blunder on his 2nd movement turn sending all the German armour back a move towards their base-line.
However, that was the last set-back for the Germans, who then went on to right royally thrash the French.

Having automatic Air Superiority and a Stuka and then the German FAC throwing 2 x double 1's in subsequent turns, allowed the Stuka to come in bang on target on my Char-B's and took them apart. NB: the French 20mm AA I had put with my Infantry - just in case they were the target of the air attack, as they advanced in their trucks on the other flank! Hey-ho  Sad

I did managed to get my Infantry and Infantry Support weapons in their trucks to do a grand sweeping flank move against the German infantry, that had holed up in a wood in the center of the table, but to no avail  Roll eyes
We played the game to a pretty grisly finish for the French, with all their armour and most of the infantry (which also saw the attentions of the deadly Stuka, as well as the German off-table 105mm guns) destroyed. I broke on 11 units lost against a BP:8, for the loss of one of 1 x Pz-IIs.

It didn't take long for my opponent to get the hang of the fact that (unlike FoW) as long as he kept passing his command rolls he could keep shooting but once he 'got' it and the concentration of fire concept, there was no stopping him. My Char-B that had not succumbed to the Stuka, was hit for 2 turns of shooting with 11 dice from his 6 Pz-IIs and the StuGIII and died pretty swiftly, even with 5 lives and a save on a 4+.
Maybe I should have gone for more (cheaper) French tanks and also not bought the Trucks, but they did give the French Infantry great maneuverability, and on a 6 feet x 4 feet table - with a lot of terrain on it, I really liked the flow of the game. We had room to maneuver and spread out.

So an interesting game - over and done with in 4 game turns and hopefully a new BKC convert  Smiley Smiley Smiley

Cheers
Mark

NB: I just need to work out how to post photos now ... I only took a couple as I got too engrossed in the game but it would be nice to try and put them up.
« Last Edit: 27 April 2019, 11:58:55 PM by Big Insect » Logged
Prophaniti
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« Reply #1 on: 28 April 2019, 12:19:41 AM »

Interesting to see how effective the stukas were, in spite of the (rightfully I believe) reduced hit chances in the new rules.
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Steve J
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« Reply #2 on: 28 April 2019, 07:37:35 AM »

Sounds like a great game and nice to have a new convert Smiley. I thought the Air rules were the same as BKCII, but will cross check to make sure. It's easy to miss subtle changes, so maybe a simple guide to what's changed might be useful, as Pete Jones did re: BKCI & II.
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Big Insect
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« Reply #3 on: 28 April 2019, 10:47:54 AM »

It's an idea Steve ... we looked at it but it's not easy due to the BCK III issues. But I'll give it a go.

In our game the Stuka was helped greatly by the fact that the German FAC threw two Command bonus's in a row, and then rolled extremely good to hit dice, whilst the Char-B's saving throws also were poor.

In fact, overall the French Commanders - although there were more of them - performed very poorly - only ever getting a couple of moves out of units they were ordering at a time. But such is the way of the game.

I felt it actually performed as a game quite realistically for France in 1940. Had the Char-B's actually managed to move forwards and got a few more rounds of shooting off, the German armour might have been in trouble, but my opponent was very bold - I think it's those Flames of War genes! He got in under half range in a couple of turns and concentrated his shooting.
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Stratoq
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WWW
« Reply #4 on: 29 April 2019, 08:35:30 AM »

A good read and it is probably fair to say a historical result. Great work!
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Big Insect
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« Reply #5 on: 29 April 2019, 04:18:30 PM »

The main change on the air attacks rules from BKCII to BKCIV Steve, is that AFVs are only hit on a d6, However their to Save throw is increased by +1. (e.g. from a 4/5/6 to a 5&6).

If Open topped (Exposed) they are hit on a 5 & 6 and again their to Save throw is also increased.

Needless to say in our game the German Stuka pilot had his eye in and the Char-Bs threw very poor saving dice rolls.
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #6 on: 29 April 2019, 08:35:58 PM »

The main change on the air attacks rules from BKCII to BKCIV Steve, is that AFVs are only hit on a d6. However their to Save throw is increased by +1. (e.g. from a 4/5/6 to a 5&6).

If Open topped (Exposed) they are hit on a 5 & 6 and again their to Save throw is also increased.

Besides the template size, isn’t iv the same as ii ?
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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,
And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”
Big Insect
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« Reply #7 on: 29 April 2019, 09:42:44 PM »

No - Page 29 in BKCII (the printed copy I have available in front of me now anyway - NB: but I will have to check the latest PDF copy to ensure it is the most up to date) states clearly in the Testing for Casualties section at the top of the page (right hand side table) states:

Units in Open - 4,5 or 6 to hit
Units in soft cover or partial cover - 5 or 6 to hit
Units in hard or full cover, command units - 6 to hit

In the body of the text it then goes on to state:
AFV's have their save value reduced by one when attacked by aircraft e.g. a save value of 4 will become 5 and a save vale of 5 will become 6.

The template size/shape has changed from BKCII

Hope tat helps
Mark
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #8 on: 30 April 2019, 08:32:28 AM »

I’ve just realised what’s happened – I think you’ve missed the hits summary page at the back of BKCII - the VERY last page.

On page 29 of BKCII it says:
Units in the open 4,5,6
Units in soft or partial cover 5,6
Units in hard or full cover, command units 6

THEN
In the hit summary on the last page (p140) it goes on to say:
Indirect fire vs open AFVs 5,6
Indirect fire vs full AFVs 6


On page 52 of BKCIV it says
Units in the open 4,5,6
Units in soft or partial cover, open AFVs  5,6
Units in hard or full cover, full AFVs, command units 6

In all cases units hit by aircraft have their save reduced by 1 in both sets. BKCII and BKCIV are the same in this regard.

The only difference is the attack template which has gone from a circle to a rectangle (of very slightly smaller area).
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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,
And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”
Big Insect
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Posts: 498


« Reply #9 on: 30 April 2019, 04:07:14 PM »

Glad we are sorted  Smiley

There is a difference between BKCII and BKCIII about how vulnerable AFVs are when assaulted in a BUA ... but that's a different matter

Cheers
Mark
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Cross698
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« Reply #10 on: 30 April 2019, 09:05:26 PM »

Sounds good. I did the battle of Arrass as a weekend game at the club which was very interesting, i quite like early war and have a hankering for some Poles.
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Big Insect
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« Reply #11 on: 30 April 2019, 11:06:21 PM »

I am (in between working on BKCIV errata and starting the next project - which is CWCII) looking at additional lists.

Early Lithuanian is very interesting - lots of WW1 and mid-war tanks/tankettes etc and a variety of guns. They join the Russians in attacking the Poles early on ... and have an armored train as well.
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Risaldar Singh
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« Reply #12 on: 22 May 2019, 08:33:49 AM »

I’ve just realised what’s happened – I think you’ve missed the hits summary page at the back of BKCII - the VERY last page.

On page 29 of BKCII it says:
Units in the open 4,5,6
Units in soft or partial cover 5,6
Units in hard or full cover, command units 6

THEN
In the hit summary on the last page (p140) it goes on to say:
Indirect fire vs open AFVs 5,6
Indirect fire vs full AFVs 6

It doesn't say "indirect fire vs" it says "Off-table artillery fire, on-table mortars, and infantry guns using Indirect Fire vs..." which definitely doesn't read to me as though it includes aircraft (and page 29 is very clear in this regard). Anyway, we've always played them in BKCII as described by Big Insect: hits depend on terrain rather than target type, saves reduced by one.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2019, 08:43:30 AM by Risaldar Singh » Logged
Risaldar Singh
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« Reply #13 on: 22 May 2019, 08:42:53 AM »

It's an idea Steve ... we looked at it but it's not easy due to the BCK III issues. But I'll give it a go.

Just as an aside, you often mention compatibility with BCK III as an issue but that version was terminally flawed, to the point that it suffered the equivalent of an industrial product recall with free replacements all around. Wouldn't it be a lot simpler (not just for you) if you just ignored it?
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Big Insect
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« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2019, 09:59:21 PM »

There are a lot of new players who bought BKCIII and liked it and still play it.

Some new BKCIII mechanisms were good and worked well ... so it was important "not to throw the baby out with the bath water" ... so to speak.

Also ... some of the new added mechanisms - like the Recce section have worked very well as house rules for many years ... what I should have done was ask some newbies to play-test them to see if they made sense, as the old guard who'd played them for years already had it in their heads how it should work.
That was a learning for future upgrades.

Cheers
Mark
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