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Author Topic: American Army Lists  (Read 650 times)
Prophaniti
Cadet

Posts: 26


« on: 10 April 2019, 11:02:53 PM »

In the spirit of some sense of organisation, I thought I'd put the discrepancies in the army list(s) for my current interest in this thread, for others to add to with their own comments.  Probably a good idea to give each nation a separate thread.

American Army, Far East
-Might be worth explaining the * by the AT factor of the mortars. I know it applies to suppression only unless exposed, but it won't be clear to a new reader of the game rules.

-LVT(A)1, should lose: exposed, restricted arc and Transport(2) - These had enclosed Stuart turrets and weren't used for transport
-LVT(A)4, should lose: restricted arc and Transport(2) - These had the M8 Scott turrets and weren't used for transport
-LVT(A)4 Ronson, should lose: Transport(2) - These had the M8 Scott variant turrets and weren't used for transport.  I can see the case for keeping restricted, but also for losing it too.

AA guns.
-Self-propelled 37mm has different range (50cm) to the towed equivalent (40cm) - n.b There's a range of ranges for 37/40mm AA across the armies for what is fundamentally the same gun.  (The German version is 2/60)
-Quad .50 Cal. If one .50cal has AA 2/30, I would expect the quad to be 3/30 or 4/30.  It's in the book at 2/50

Vehicles and Wagons
-There should be the LVT(A) per the NW Europe American list from 11/43+ at Tarawa (Possibly from 8/42+ for Guadalcanal, but these would be the unarmoured LVT 1)
-I was going to critique the inclusion of Universal carriers, but they're legit for the Philippines, according to Wikipedia.  I'd only question the stats.  Surely they'd be the same as the UK ones?  I also think that Universal Carriers should have the AT rifles rule where that is their AT armament.

Infantry upgrades: Just a suggestion to add 'IATW' to the notes section of the various bazookas, for clarity.

I've had a skim over the other US lists and they appear to be OK.
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Big Insect
Major
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Posts: 521


« Reply #1 on: 11 April 2019, 11:34:39 AM »

Many thanks

Again, these are changes we can make easily to the online PDF versions of the lists.

I appreciate the attention to detail as this is a theatre of the war where my knowledge is not as complete as it could be.

On the universal carriers - that one must have slipped through the edit net - as they should all have the same stats (pretty much) as with Jeeps.

Cheers
Mark
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paulr
General
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Posts: 8659


« Reply #2 on: 11 April 2019, 08:51:42 PM »

My recollection is that the Universal Carriers in the Phillipines arrived without weapons and an interesting variety of available US weapons were added
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2018 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!
tankette
Cadet

Posts: 11


« Reply #3 on: 20 April 2019, 04:13:02 AM »

M3 Lee Tank seems to be missing from the 42-43 Tunisia list.
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Big Insect
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Posts: 521


« Reply #4 on: 20 April 2019, 11:21:26 AM »

All really helpful - the missing Lee/Grant has already been picked up elsewhere - but please do keep these coming.

Thanks
Mark

(Now back from holiday)  Smiley
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tankette
Cadet

Posts: 11


« Reply #5 on: 20 April 2019, 11:16:57 PM »

Thanks ....Mitch
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BeeKiller
Cadet

Posts: 18


« Reply #6 on: 30 November 2019, 03:55:48 PM »

Just found another US army errata.
Italy theater say M8 and M20 only appeared on June '44,  while in reality in 1943, Sicily, M8 appeared and a few months later M20 also did
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sultanbev
Playtester
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Posts: 425



« Reply #7 on: 30 November 2019, 08:47:27 PM »

Just found another US army errata.
Italy theater say M8 and M20 only appeared on June '44,  while in reality in 1943, Sicily, M8 appeared and a few months later M20 also did

According to New Vanguard 53 by SJ Zaloga, first M8s appeared in October 1943 in the mediterranean theatre and first saw combat in January 1944.

M20s were rarer, only 50 in theatre in infantry divisions and the 8 TD Battalions by July 1944.
Priority of delivery had gone to units preparing for D-Day. many units used M2 halftracks instead. Tank Destroyer Battalions that were short of M8s were issued M5A1 Stuarts instead.

The only units to have M8s in 1943-Feb' 44 in Italy were:
81st Recce Battalion, 1st Armoured Division Oct 1943, first combat Jan 1944
91st Cavalry Recce Squadron, 5th Army Oct 1943, first combat Jan 1944
117th Cavalry Recce Squadron, 7th Army, May-July 1944 only
Infantry divisions and  TD Battalions had some M8 from early 1944, but there were only 185 in theatre by July 1944. In comparison, NW Europe had 1562x M8 and 472x M20 at the same time.

Mark
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BeeKiller
Cadet

Posts: 18


« Reply #8 on: 02 December 2019, 09:41:44 PM »

Thank you for the additional information, Mark.

If M8 were present at August 1943, even in small numbers, they should be available for the US BKC commander

M8 Greyhound “Austin”, low profile early type turret, 1st US Division reconnaissance unit, Operation Husky, Sicily, August 1943.


The same way that the still fewer German Ferdinands are available in the Italian theater.

IMHO

Eduard
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sultanbev
Playtester
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« Reply #9 on: 03 December 2019, 12:39:39 AM »

Interesting print, it shows an M8 of the American 1st Infantry Division's Cavalry Recce Troop. I haven't yet found a source that confirms this, but presume it is legit, as it looks like the illustration is from Tank Encyclopedia which tries to get it's artwork correct. First production M8s rolled off in March 1943 - allowing 2 months shipping time would mean some could be available by July 1943. From what I've read in other sources, it looks like the US armoured divisions didn't receive their M8s until deployment in Italy. Looking at youtube videos, it appears that other US infantry divisions (3rd, 45th) in Sicily still had M3A1 White Scout Cars.

Yes, by all means, include the M8 in with 7/43+ start date, the generic BKC lists allow formations from different divisions to be fielded together, limit would be 3. An infantry division had a single Troop, it  being a company sized organisation, consisting of 3 platoons each of 3x M8, with another 2 in the Troop HQ and one more in the maintenance section. The June 1944 date in the rule book is indeed well out. Also for some reason the M8 Greyhound is not in the Recce Section of the army list.

In another error on pg.87 of the rule book, the 57mm M1 ATG is listed as 9/44+, when in fact some infantry divisions had them in Sicily in the regimental anti-tank companies, with the battalion A/T platoons still using 37mm M3A1 ATG until April 1944. (one source was the war diary of the 45th Infantry Division)

Mark
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