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Author Topic: Dig In  (Read 2024 times)
fred.
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« on: 07 April 2019, 10:54:03 PM »

Hi chaps

Well done on getting the new version of the rules out.

Can I ask about Dig In, itís referenced several times as a thing troops can do instread of moving, but I canít see anywhere that it is defined.
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Big Insect
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« Reply #1 on: 07 April 2019, 11:03:59 PM »

Thank you  Smiley it has been a labour of love

Dig In ... ok ... I must admit I thought we'd done that.

I'll have a check through the rules as it obviously needs to be defined..
Generally we play tested it that a unit that was dug-in was harder to spot/see (but not from higher ground or the air), harder to hit from direct fire (but not from indirect-fire - such as artillery, air-strikes and mortars) and gave a small advantage in the initial round of an assault. This generally worked pretty well.

Allowing units to use an Initiative action to dig-in also helped game-play.

Let me have a read through - again, it might have slipped through the net as we went through final edit.

Many thanks for raising it.

Mark

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fred.
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« Reply #2 on: 01 May 2019, 10:26:47 PM »

Hi

Have you had chance to look at Dig In?
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Steve J
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« Reply #3 on: 02 May 2019, 06:57:23 AM »

I've not been able to find the rule regarding Dig-In. In BKCI it allowed a unit to dig-in as an Intiative move as long as it was 20cm away from the enemy and out of LoS. It was then hit on a 5+. As useful rule IMHO.
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Cross698
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« Reply #4 on: 02 May 2019, 11:25:31 AM »

I've used it as a house rule for a while for Infantry, HMG, Mortars and Anti Tank Guns as an action - either Initiative or as a command and gives the troops +1 protection to be Hit from direct firing, so in the open 5+, Partial 6 etc but no saves.
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ianrs54
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« Reply #5 on: 02 May 2019, 12:14:13 PM »

If I may - a practical comment on this - in real life it takes several hours to dig a proper fighting trench. On one occasion the ground was so hard that not even an explosive digging charge could loosen it. But - as soon as an infantry unit halts the men take up ground covered positions, which both hide them and offer some cover from fire. I'd like to see all stationary infantry given the cover bonus.

IanS
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Cross698
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« Reply #6 on: 02 May 2019, 02:31:26 PM »

I see the "dig in" as part of the unit making best use of the ground for cover, as much as it digging into the ground.   I suppose their is an argument that anything with a low profile should have a -1D6 for direct fire, especially beyond half range.
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Big Insect
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« Reply #7 on: 02 May 2019, 06:14:07 PM »

The whole Dig-In thing is under review and debate folks ... the idea was to allow units to create some form of quick cover, enough to allow them to effectively go to ground and have some sort of protection from direct fire attacks.
These are small fox-holes and scrapes - so not trenches.
Some AFVs can dig a scrape within a minute or 2 with a dozer blade attached (for example).

I am just working through the rules to check the implications of this on other more 'formal' field defenses.

Bare with me please and I will come back once I am happy with what I've done.

Thanks
Mark
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T-Square
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« Reply #8 on: 09 May 2019, 02:25:31 PM »

Mark,

You may want to also allow Dig-In as a deploy command for Infantry units only.  It would be the last command that could be given an Infantry unit during the turn.  (This simulates the time needed to pull out your entrenching tool and dig like hell.)  This would provide soft cover for the unit.  (Hit on 5/6). (This becomes a trade off decision for the player.  "Do I want possibly more commands this turn or for the unit to have a bit of cover.")

As far as AFVs and digging in, Iím not sure.  Iíve read that tankers always try to find that little natural rise to get hull down behind.  However, at our scale of game play, Iím not sure if it is needed.

Terry
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stevemetheringham
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« Reply #9 on: 19 May 2019, 09:59:08 PM »

Mark

We had a game last week and I spent ages looking for what 'dig in' meant Smiley

I think it could also be considered just being more careful and taking better advantage of what cover is available.

Steve
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Big Insect
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« Reply #10 on: 19 May 2019, 10:11:10 PM »

Hello Meth - Dig-in is on the errata list - it appears all over the place, in not only BKCIV but with no hard description - I'm working on it and will come up with a definition.

You are right about it basically being very careful ... but I also see it as troops not only making use of natural cover, but also enhancing that cover with their entrenching tools, so more scrapes in the ground and shallow fox-holes than full blown trenches or deep holes. Hence why it is possible to Dig-in as an Initiative action.

The Errata is well on its way. Thanks to every-bodies calm and measured posts and debate, Leon is quietly building the list in the background.

I hope the game played well Steve ... anybody else I know involved from the old Armati tribe?

Cheers
Mark
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stevemetheringham
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« Reply #11 on: 20 May 2019, 08:02:05 PM »

Mark

The game generally ran well, however I personally thought artillery seemed powerful against infantry , but I need to play some more.

I was keen on some sort of 'Dig in' move to make infantry less vulnerable, particularly in the open.

We had some green and veteran troops, but could see no real difference

The game was at home against some local gamers - I doubt you know them. - I was however in Brentford over the weekend where 10 of us (mostly the usual gang) we played Armati.

Steve
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #12 on: 20 May 2019, 08:20:30 PM »

I personally thought artillery seemed powerful against infantry...

Was it a barrage or a concentration?
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Big Insect
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« Reply #13 on: 21 May 2019, 12:38:08 PM »

Thanks Steve

The big difference between Green and Vets is all around how easily or not they can be suppressed.
Interesting that you think artillery is potentially over powerful ... Infantry in the open will usually get murdered by artillery - but I am not sure that the Dig-in rule (once I have crafted it) would help much, as its the direct fire that is mostly off-set by digging in.

Do you mean a more robust form of defense - such as a trench ?

I had forgotten about Brentford ... where did you come?

Cheers
Mark
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stevemetheringham
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« Reply #14 on: 22 May 2019, 08:36:47 PM »

Mark

It would be good to see you playing Armati again - it is still fun!

With respect to Veteran and Green being different to suppress where is this stated - on page 36 (& p48) it just says you need to repeat the 'to hit' dice value - or am I missing something?

There is a difference when hit by opportunity fire, when Green are supressed on a 6 (p77) and veterans on a 4 (p80), so veterans are much easier - i that what was intended?
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