Pendraken Miniatures Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
20 August 2019, 03:52:20 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
The 1809 Napoleonic expansion has been released!
282208 Posts in 16854 Topics by 2188 Members
Latest Member: Hawes35
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Pendraken Miniatures Forum
|-+  Pendraken Rules!
| |-+  Blitzkrieg Commander IV (Moderator: Big Insect)
| | |-+  MicroMark Army Lists for BKC-IV!
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Go Down Print
Author Topic: MicroMark Army Lists for BKC-IV!  (Read 1428 times)
Shutuphippie
Second Lieutenant
*
*
Posts: 113


« Reply #15 on: 28 June 2019, 08:00:55 PM »

Just downloaded the 15th Pz list.  Cracking job Mark itís outstanding and a full 5 pages 😁

Logged

2018 Painting Competition - Winner!
cardophillipo
Playtester
Second Lieutenant
*
Posts: 74



« Reply #16 on: 28 June 2019, 09:36:10 PM »

OK firstly big thanks to Mark B for doing these, I think its a great idea and will prove to be very popular. I do have a couple of queries on the way the army lists have been constructed and would welcome input into how other players feel about certain aspects of the lists.

1. The huge amount of HQ's in the lists. Do players use an HQ at Company level in their games or do they play with an HQ at Battalion level. Wouldn't this slow the game up considerably with sometimes 3 or 4 times more activation rolls being needed.

2. Some of the units represented at Platoon level are, according to the original Micromark lists, included at that level even when they are listed as having 2 or 3 weapons/vehicles etc. Surely these should be added together and then become a Battalion level asset rather than add a Platoon at Company level.

E.g. In the German 29th Panzer Grenadier Division (BKCG1) the Divisional 129th Recce Battalions 3rd and 4th Heavy Armoured Companies are listed as having a Sdkfz 251/2 in each Company. According to the Micromark list each Company should have a Section of 2 x Sdkfz 251/2. Would this be better combining the 2 Sections into a platoon of 4 x Sdkfz 251/2 and have it at Battalion level.

I would be interested in other players thoughts on this as I personally have always considered the game to be at a scale of 4-6 vehicles = a Platoon in game terms.

Cheers

Richard P
Logged
cardophillipo
Playtester
Second Lieutenant
*
Posts: 74



« Reply #17 on: 28 June 2019, 10:15:57 PM »

Another point regarding the Company HQ's, it's late and I'm probably going to waffle but I hope this makes some sort of sense.

I have a Battalion with three Companies (A, B and C) each with an HQ (CV8)

A Co. rolls a 6
B Co. rolls a 10
C Co. rolls a 9

Therefore at Company level only A Co. can activate. So can the Battalion HQ (CV9) then try and activate both B Co. and C Co. or just one? In theory a Battalion HQ should be able to order all Company HQ's.

So if the Battalion HQ then rolls and fails to activate can the Regimental HQ then activate the Battalion HQ or just one of the Company HQ's. If it activates the Battalion HQ can it then order both Companies?

I hope this makes sense and would welcome peoples thoughts.

Cheers

Richard P
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #18 on: 28 June 2019, 10:37:51 PM »

Some valid questions Richard P, I just typed a massive reply, pressed the wrong key and it all disappeared  Angry

Mark B
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #19 on: 28 June 2019, 11:05:42 PM »

try again, in bits
"1. The huge amount of HQ's in the lists."
Umm, yes. In the first drafts I did, I merely listed the total number of stands within a battalion, the grenadier battalions in BKCG1 looked like:
Battalion HQ CV9   90   CMD   40   -   -   3   4   6   1   AA: 2/30
Company HQ CV8   60   CMD   40   -   -   3   4   6   4   
Infantry Platoon   80   INF   10   5/30   1/20   5   6   -           12   Integral PzB39, 2 MG per squad
Truck   15   VEH   20   -   -   -   3   -                   20   Kfz 70, SPA38, Transport(2), Wheeled
MMG Platoon   40   INF   10   3/60   -   2   5   -            4   
8.1cm Gr34 mortar   75   INF   10   3/120   3/120* 2   3   4   2-tube battery
Panzerfaust-30 upgrade   65   INF   -   -   8/5   -   -   12   2/44+

But when I forwarded both layouts to Mark F, he preferred the version with the CHQs, which I do too.
The notes do say CHQs are purely optional. I've included them for historical reference purposes, and because I know some people model combat HQs in their own version of the rules, hence the bracketed suggestion of what model to field for every HQ. And because it looks better showing the individual companies within a battalion.
In reality I do not expect gamers to field every CHQ. More, I expect they might choose 1 CHQ within a battalion, representing the 2ic of the Bttn HQ, or the cumulative effects of 2-3 CHQs. Especially if you have a large battalion with a lot of stands in it. It might add that extra pinch of flexibility to get a mission done.

Mark B
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #20 on: 28 June 2019, 11:32:25 PM »

"2. Some of the units represented at Platoon level are, according to the original Micromark lists, included at that level even when they are listed as having 2 or 3 weapons/vehicles etc. Surely these should be added together and then become a Battalion level asset rather than add a Platoon at Company level."

Yes, that is what Spearhead/Modern Spearhead does, at a similar level of play. It's not necessarily wrong. I had got the impression in my head that BKC/CWC is different from SH/MSH/RF in that it was the platoons that counted, rather than the weapons. For a real world Panzer grenadier company commander, the 2 tubes of SP 81mm mortars must have been important, so I had instinctively included them in each company. They were never massed at Bttn HQ, so didn't want to create that effect.

My thought was to be consistent, and try and retain some historical replication of the TOE, whilst representing the abilities of the company. Thus, in the 15th Panzer Division list just done, several 2.8cm sPzB41 are missing, as some companies had 1 platoon with only 1 of them, alongside 2-3 other PAKs. So overall, it's an anti-tank platoon failing or not failing at knocking out an enemy tank platoon in the game, and having or not having one real world 28mm isn't going to make that much difference in effect. And, because there aren't any more in the company, I couldn't amalgamate them across the company. However, in a situation where say 3 platoons have a net 3-4 weapons of one type, I'll write in one model for that company.

So in a roundabout way, I'm saying I'll amalgamate across a company where appropriate, but not across a battalion. Inevitably, the British Sherman/Firefly combination is going to come up. I'll be presenting a British Armoured Squadron as 3 Shermans and 1 Firefly (some squadrons did actaully operate their troops that way), and later 1944-45 as 2 of each. It's an abstraction we'll have to put up with.
As we've already got an abstracted system of hits and saves for a platoon of tanks, not an individual tank, I do not think this is unreasonable. And who is to say, that that very abstraction does include a representation of understrength platoons? Is it 3 actual vehicles, or 4, or even 5? But we know it's a platoon.

Either way, if a playing group thinks modelling a distinct platoon of 2 weapons is unreasonable, there is nothing to stop them fielding less models. For your panzergrenadiers, just buy 1x Sdkfz 251/2 for every 6 stands of infantry, or whatever.
If you like, think of it as I'm presenting the maximum information, anyone is free to use less of that information.

Mark B



Logged
cardophillipo
Playtester
Second Lieutenant
*
Posts: 74



« Reply #21 on: 29 June 2019, 09:45:42 AM »

Thanks Mark B, great to get your responses.

Cheers

Richard P
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #22 on: 29 June 2019, 04:32:54 PM »

A brilliant idea and having bought a number of Mark's army lists in the past, these new lists will be just what many BKC players could use.  For me, lists for 11th/13th Pz Div and Soviet 8th/19th Mech Corps as at late June 1941 (Battle of Dubno) would be good,;

First list of your requests up,
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/281370/BKCG3-German-11th-Panzer-Division-Russia-JuneJuly-1941

This is the generic list for the division at the time, I haven't read up on details of the battle where there may have been slight differences. (A book on the battle is en route!)

Mark B
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #23 on: 30 June 2019, 12:16:23 PM »

And 13th Panzer in June-July 1941:
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/281376/BKCG4-German-13th-Panzer-Division-Russia-JuneJuly-1941

Mark B
Logged
Superscribe
Cadet

Posts: 18


« Reply #24 on: 03 July 2019, 12:05:15 AM »

Have downloaded both. Excellent detail. Many thanks Mark
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #25 on: 03 July 2019, 12:28:42 AM »

Thanks!
The first three Russian lists are also up, for 12th, 34th Tank Divisions and 7th Mechanised Division.
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/281536/BKCR5-Russian-12th-Tank-Division-8th-Mechanised-Corps-Russia-June-1941
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/281613/BKCR6-Russian-34th-Tank-Division-8th-Mechanised-Corps-Russia-June-1941
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/281677/BKCR7-Russian-7th-Mechanised-Division-Russia-June-1941

Mark
Logged
Superscribe
Cadet

Posts: 18


« Reply #26 on: 04 July 2019, 02:39:01 PM »

Brilliant Mark - have downloaded the latest 4 Russian ones.  Excellent detail - just what I was hoping for. 

Can I add some more to the list please for June 1941: German - 14 PD, 16 PD, 57 ID, 75 ID; Soviet - Divs in 9 MC and 228 RD.  All at Dubno. 

Best regards

Chris
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #27 on: 04 July 2019, 03:36:46 PM »

Ah, the 228th will be interesting, you get to play with a full regiment of 203mm B31 howitzers  Smiley

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, I've got more details on the 12th and 34th TDs, so they will be getting updated at some point when I've done 19th Mech Corps lists.

Mark B
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #28 on: 10 July 2019, 04:38:34 PM »

Some more Russian lists are now available, 19th Mechanised Corps and corps Motorcycle Regiment, along with British lists for Arnhem commenced:

https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/3426/MicroMark-Army-Lists/subcategory/5776_33007/BLITZKRIEG-COMMANDER-IV-ARMY-LISTS
BKCR8: Russian 40th Tank Division, 19th Mechanised Corps, Russia, June 1941
BKCR9: Russian 43rd Tank Division, 19th Mechanised Corps, Russia, June 1941
BKCR10: Russian 213th Mechanised Division, 19th Mechanised Corps, Russia, June 1941
BKCR11: Russian Corps Motorcycle Regiment, Mechanised Corps, June 1941
BKCB21: British 1st Airborne Division, NW Europe, September 1944
BKCB22: British 30th Corps Support Units, 2nd Household Cavalry Regiment, Sept 1944


Mark B
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 398



« Reply #29 on: 13 July 2019, 11:27:35 PM »

Next lists are up:
BKCG13: German 14th Panzer Division, Russia, June-July 1941
BKCB23: British Grenadier Guards Battlegroup, 5th Guards Armoured Brigade, Guards Armoured Division, NW Europe, September 1944
BKCB24: British Irish Guards Battlegroup, 5th Guards Armoured Brigade, Guards Armoured Division, NW Europe, September 1944

Mark B
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!