Furioso - Rules for the C16th

[Leman]

I bought these yesterday, to accompany my 2019 endeavour to complete my 15mm Italian Wars collection, along with the supplement, Furioso, The Italian Wars. They contain the kind of historical detail often lacking in rules, such as mercenaries suddenly quitting the field because they've not been paid, or the lads from that bunch of Albanian stradiots would rather go to the pub than fight, or even more annoying, pillage their own army's baggage. And how fortunate is this particular army that has just received a Papal blessing. Quite a lot of thought has been put into preparing the battle, very reminiscent of a lot of the RFCM rules. This is the kind of thing I like in a wargame - the opportunity not just to have a game of chess with figures and terrain, but the chance to weave a story around what is going on.

The actual tabletop mechanisms are not overly complex, but do include some interesting innovations both in rule mechanisms and in tactical representations of specific unit types, eg. a Spanish colunela  is listed as having eight bases.  What about shot and sword and buckler men? These are not in the Spanish list. Instead all pike units get a base of skirmish screen infantry for every front stand of pike, so a Spanish pike unit of eight bases, four deep, would get two bases of skirmish arquebus. Also all pike units get one stand of halberdiers/two-handed swordsmen/sword and buckler men per four stands of pike, so the Spanish unit gets two bases of sword and buckler men. these are used in the first round of close combat only and then withdrawn to allow for push of pike.

Basing is 40mm frontage for 15mm or below, 80mm frontage for 28mm, with movement/ranges in cm/inches respectively. Movement can be pretty unpredictable needing a 5 or 6 on a D6 to activate a unit, but various factors may add to the number of dice.

The supplement for the GIW includes various mercenary generals, mercenary bands, historical scenarios, solo and campaign play, and strange inventions (it's that man Leonardo again). This aspect of the early C16th has always fascinated me, and now Alternative armies have come up with a 15mm model of the Leonardo tank, plus two models of Leonardo himself, foot and mounted, based on his later life self-portrait.

Painting continues apace, but it will still be a few months before I can put up the French against Venetians in a suggested starter scenario (a free download from Alternative Armies), but in the meantime I will continue to study the rules.

[mmcv]

Sounds like they could be a lot of fun and add a lot of the character and flavor for the period. How do they initiate the random events? Is it card driven or rolling against a table or something else entirely?

[jambo1]

I have been tempted by these rules but really don't want to start yet another project and especially in 15mm!! Will be looking forward to seeing your progress though!

[fred.]

They sound interesting.

How important is that bases are rectangles, from the photos all bases are this shape. Much of my 10mm stuff is now on 40mm square bases, and while I do have a bit still on 40x20mm, most is 40mm squares. Would this work, or be a pain for the rules?

For £9, I'm tempted anyway!

[Leman]

Sounds like they could be a lot of fun and add a lot of the character and flavor for the period. How do they initiate the random events? Is it card driven or rolling against a table or something else entirely?

It is a simple die roll on a table, with 6 possible results, one of which will favour the opposition. However there is also a choice of which table to roll on. There are five of them and all have different outcomes, thus a gamble must be made - most favourable to your situation, or least damaging if the result favours the enemy. There are also in-game tables to roll against, called hazards, but only if you are unlucky enough to roll four ones in a handful of dice. This is what could send your Stradiots of to the pub or the baggage, or your artillery could suffer a barrel burst!

[Leman]

They sound interesting.

How important is that bases are rectangles, from the photos all bases are this shape. Much of my 10mm stuff is now on 40mm square bases, and while I do have a bit still on 40x20mm, most is 40mm squares. Would this work, or be a pain for the rules?

For £9, I'm tempted anyway!

I don't view that as a problem. My troops are based up for Impetus on 80mm bases of varying depth. I intend to play that as one base is worth two, so an eight base Spanish pike unit will be made up of four of my bases, one behind the other. Some troop types have three bases only. I will use two of my Impetus bases, marking one with a casualty figure. AS far as I can tell you have a much smaller problem to deal  with  than me, especially as the bases are suggestions.

[fred.]

Thanks. Hoped it wouldn't be too big a deal. As you say you can easily count 1 bigger base as 2 within the rules.

The events etc sound good.

[d_Guy]

I finally purchased Furioso a few weeks ago after revisiting the discussion here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,16133.0.html
The deciding factor was that it covers Elizabeth's army and the Irish army of the same period. The Scots army and Tudor army might also be able to go as early as Flodden (the last medieval battle or its own unique thing?)

I have experimented a bit (with empty DBx bases) and like some of the mechanisms (already mentioned in this and the other thread). All of my basing is on 25mm squares so will need to do some of the juggling that Leman suggests. Between Baroque and Furioso I hope to gain sufficient experience with the period to ultimately come up with a bridge between TtS! and FK&P (for my own eccentric purposes).

I posted this to hopefully encourage Leman, et.al. to continue to post about these rules and various basing adaptations.

[fred.]

I too purchased the rules - but only got to read them at the weekend just gone. They do look interesting, there are some bits that could be clearer, but I think I have noodled them out.

I do like the initiative phase, but wonder if it might get a little tedious in a big game. It feels like you need a d10 to mark the initiative score against a unit, or perhaps some little discs numbered 0 to 8 would be good. I haven't really got my head around the combat phase yet, it seems you roll a lot of dice, but need quite a few hits to kill a stand (and there is a strange bit about loosing a stand being the same as losing a standard).

I also couldn't find some of the weapons / special rules against the Tudor and Irish lists (Bill Hook or PoleArm).

Most of my stuff is now on 40mm square bases, so I think I will want some 40x20mm squares for skirmishing shot. With 25mm squares I think I would go for 2 bases = 1 base in the rules. I'm not sure I'm going to bother about the differences in depth between infantry and cavalry, doesn't seem too important to the rules.

Its worth getting the starter scenario off the website, as it gives a couple of example forces which helped me get a feel for an army, as I had looked at the cost of Swiss pike blocks and was thinking you would only have 2 or 3 units to an army!

[Orcs]

I have bought it as I have quite a few 15mm Italian wars figures.  Just not had a chance to play test them yet.  They do look good

[d_Guy]

I also couldn't find some of the weapons / special rules against the Tudor and Irish lists (Bill Hook or PoleArm).

Yes, I don't think there are special rules for English Billmen, they are treated as melee tactic troops and have a good combat factor. Going against Lowland pikes they would appear to have a combat advantage. One issue is that early Tudor Billman move 6 while Elizabethan  Billman move only 4 with no difference in armor class. Don't know if that is a mistake or something I'm missing.

Incidently, I like the way special melee weapons (halbreds, S&B, etc) are  integrated with pike formations (as Leman mentioned above) the shot maybe less so.

[fred.]

That might be the case, that the name is given just for flavour, rather than for special rules. Would perhaps have expected two hand melee weapons to give a bonus against armour.

I think the speed 6 with armour is a typo. In checking I have also just seen that javelin armed Kerns have heavy armour, and move 6!


I quite like having a small amount of shot as part of the pike block. There is the option to take some separate shot for most lists.

Forgot to mention I like the setup idea, of having a pool of dice to assign to the 4 factors and the highest individual dice score wins each of these. A quick way to give some variety to the game setup, with a way to have some influence over the results, but no guarantees. 

[GrumpyOldMan]

I finally purchased Furioso a few weeks ago after revisiting the discussion here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,16133.0.html
The deciding factor was that it covers Elizabeth's army and the Irish army of the same period. The Scots army and Tudor army might also be able to go as early as Flodden (the last medieval battle or its own unique thing?)

I have experimented a bit (with empty DBx bases) and like some of the mechanisms (already mentioned in this and the other thread). All of my basing is on 25mm squares so will need to do some of the juggling that Leman suggests. Between Baroque and Furioso I hope to gain sufficient experience with the period to ultimately come up with a bridge between TtS! and FK&P (for my own eccentric purposes).

I posted this to hopefully encourage Leman, et.al. to continue to post about these rules and various basing adaptations.

Hello d_Guy

I know you frequent the 'To The Strongest' forum so would you have seen that BigRedBat is working on his version of the Renaissance for TtS and FK&P - https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tothestrongest/supplement-and-army-lists-t1345.html

Are you assisting, modifying with a ball-peen or pre-empting?

Incidentally I've just been reading about Sheriffmuir, could this be another use for your hordes of Scots. Of course you'd have to get some LOA to go with them.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

[d_Guy]

Actual, Gumpy, I am not working on the TtS! Renassiance rules, I think it is Gonsolvo.  I plan to work backward from the FK&P rules, incorporating those mechanisms for my own gaming. I haven't done much with TtS! and not overly familiar with them. So ball-peen. 

I have some LOA and am working on MacKay's army for Killiecrankie - having to add three Scottish Government regiments with blue bonnets (cut the brims and crowns then add green stuff). It is slow and boring. Perhaps I will live long enough to get to Sheriffmuir.