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Author Topic: Updating Sir Edward  (Read 2343 times)
Leman
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Posts: 10647



« Reply #15 on: 08 February 2019, 03:43:30 PM »

Nah, the Japanese thing was a fleeting 40 years, and anyway the other side of the world. Kitty, your first entry clearly shows you are away with the faeries. Oh no you don’t !  Cheesy
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The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
mollinary
Major General
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« Reply #16 on: 08 February 2019, 08:53:13 PM »

One half of my Higher History syllabus at school was Great Britain and Europe: 1815-1913 and I am convinced by that course that absolutely nothing of any significance at all happened in that period in those locations.

I was so enthused by the course that I answered questions on The Armies and Generalship of Gustavus Adolphus, The Borders Of The Roman Empire from the Reforms of Marius to the Death of Marcus Aurelius and The Code Napoleon ... to the horror of my History teacher who presumed I knew nothing about any those.

I got an "A" pass and the school History Prize out of it.

I am sure what you wrote on those subjects was brilliant, but the idea that nothing significant happened in Europe betwen 1815-1914 must be a sad reflection on your teachers! The battles of Koniggratz (1866) and Sedan (1870)  transformed Europe, and set the stage for two world wars. Austria was expelled from Germany, ending half a millenium of domination, and then France wa dethroned as the premier military power in Europe. In five years Prussia redefined the continent. Hardly ‘nothing of any significance’!
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fsn
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« Reply #17 on: 08 February 2019, 09:36:23 PM »

Mollinary's suggestions are adopted. I've also been reading up about the Italians and have added Solferino.

So we've got:

Battle of Navarino, 1827: The decline of Ottoman power and the last major sea battle entirely under sail.
Battles of Magenta and Solferino, 1859.  Crucial battles of the Risorgimento, the birth of the Red Cross and a new colour for the paint box.
Battle of Koniggratz, 1866: Prussia comes to dominate Germany
Battle of Sedan, 1870: France dethroned as Europe's premier major power
The Loss of the Maine, 1898: Birth of the American Century

Gentlemen. Are we agreed? I think these are a fine addition to Sir E's volume.

May I be permitted to slide in a little chapter as an end piece? I'd like to add The Bombing of Ain Zara, 1911 in Libya during the Italo-Turkish War. This was the first use of aerial bombing and a fitting introduction to warfare in the new century.   

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Lord Oik of Runcorn
(You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013
Oik of the Year 2014
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3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!

15mm is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
mad lemmey
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« Reply #18 on: 08 February 2019, 10:15:47 PM »

Missed Mars-La-Tours 1870 and von Bredlow's Death Ride and Gravelotte-Saint Privat
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2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner 😎
mollinary
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« Reply #19 on: 08 February 2019, 10:20:03 PM »

Missed Mars-La-Tours 1870 and von Bredlow's Death Ride and Gravelotte-Saint Privat

All great battles, but Sedan settled the matter. Capturing the Emperor, however embarrassing it was to both sides, was a politically decisive, as well as militarily decisive, moment. None of the others you mention meet those criteria.
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steve_holmes_11
Lieutenant Colonel
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« Reply #20 on: 09 February 2019, 09:32:34 AM »

Interesting question.
I'm inspired to look into the time elapsed between the event, and the recognition of its world-changing qualities.

I'll bear three elements in mind:
1. A settling time - did the "land fit for heroes" materialise, was the "great enemy" permantly laid low?
2. The tendency for participants and their promoters to re-write the narrative.
3. The immediate power of (Deep movie trailer voice) - "Nothing would ever be the same again" - our tendency to overestimate the importance of the present.

Won't hijack this thread, but might start another after I've had a dig about my history books.
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fsn
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« Reply #21 on: 09 February 2019, 10:02:52 AM »

Interesting question.
I'm inspired to look into the time elapsed between the event, and the recognition of its world-changing qualities.

I'll bear three elements in mind:
1. A settling time - did the "land fit for heroes" materialise, was the "great enemy" permantly laid low?
2. The tendency for participants and their promoters to re-write the narrative.
3. The immediate power of (Deep movie trailer voice) - "Nothing would ever be the same again" - our tendency to overestimate the importance of the present.

Won't hijack this thread, but might start another after I've had a dig about my history books.

This thread had come to a natural end, so hijack away.
Be interested to see your take.

I am surprised that no voices were raised in support of the ACW. 
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Lord Oik of Runcorn
(You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013
Oik of the Year 2014
Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!

15mm is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
Dr Dave
Guest
« Reply #22 on: 09 February 2019, 10:35:23 AM »

But you said no ACW?

But if you allow, Most decisive battles (when so many weren’t) I’d go for:

Vicksburg - for dooming the Confederacy
Spotsylvania - for demonstrating that the trick is to ignore your defeat and press on. It boosted the Army of the Potomac’s resolve and faith in Grant and made the Rebs realise that this was now attritional warfare.
Nashville - possibly the only time a field army broke and ran, so pretty decisive and also left the Deep South at Sherman’s (limited) mercy

I’ve not included Gettysburg since it’s obvious who’s going to win that one right from the start
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Leman
Field Marshal
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Posts: 10647



« Reply #23 on: 09 February 2019, 01:31:02 PM »

I must have been very fortunate to go to a school where the O level syllabus included the First Afghan War, the Crimean War, the Indian Mutiny, Magenta and Solferino, the ACW and the FPW. However, even with that lot we missed out on Konnigratz. Fortunately my dad bought me the book by Gordon Craig (still on my bookshelf), and Airfix magazine did a series on preparing their figures for the APW (a lot of reliance on WWI Germans as I recall).
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The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
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