Pendraken Miniatures Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
26 May 2020, 04:22:14 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
We've been producing PPE equipment for the frontline workers.
299185 Posts in 17602 Topics by 2238 Members
Latest Member: Ave75
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Pendraken Miniatures Forum
|-+  Wider Wargaming
| |-+  Books (Moderator: goat major)
| | |-+  Updating Sir Edward
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Updating Sir Edward  (Read 2341 times)
fsn
General
*
Posts: 8945



« on: 07 February 2019, 09:12:42 PM »

Having strolled through Oman, I'm revisiting Sir Edward Creasy's "15 decisive Battles of the World: From Marathon to Waterloo".*

Like Oman, Creasy betrays his Imperial background - "the Syracusans reacted to the Spartan general the same was Indian troops react to a British officer." Quite.

However, Sir Edward halts his narrative in 1815. Since he was writing in 1851, this is somewhat forgivable, there being nothing of note between 1815 and 1851. 

We, gentlemen, have the benefit of another century and a half and my challenge to you is to add a further 5 battles to the list. To simplify matters, I think we should draw a line at 1913. We should keep with Sir Edward's undeclared limits:
  • "The World" means Europe and such parts of the Middle East as can be learned about reading Classics at Oxford. 
  • The more British involvement, the better


So what would you add to the list? The period 1815 - 1913 is one of my dead spots, so I am genuinely interested. I will chuck in my tuppence anyway.

Something from the Austro-Prussian War - i.e. the breaking of Austrian power in Germany.
Something from the Franco-Prussian War - i.e. the dominance of Germany over France.
The Italians becoming Italy. Sir E would like that.

Now I'm a bit stuck.

I thought of the Indian Mutiny, but Sir E is quiet about Plassey and Assaye, so that's out.
The American Civil War. Did it change a lot? Really? If the Confederates had won, the US capital would have trolled 50 miles or whatever over to Richmond. Apart from that?**
Crimean War -  a sideline.
1831? 1848?
Perhaps we could sneak in something from the Sudan, or perhaps Adwa?
Tsushima 1904.

Your thoughts appreciated.


* One of my biggest regrets was loaning my 1894 copy of Sir E to a bounder who never returned it.
**Yes, I'm being deliberately provocative. Apologies.



Logged

Lord Oik of Runcorn
(You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013
Oik of the Year 2014
Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!

15mm is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
FierceKitty
Field Marshal
*
Posts: 10705


The dog is a peasant. The cat is a gentleman.


« Reply #1 on: 07 February 2019, 11:21:40 PM »

Your suggestions require us to go extra-terrestrial (for the given value of a few lines previous).
Logged

I have not the pleasure of understanding you. Of what are you talking?
paulr
General
*
*
Posts: 9631


« Reply #2 on: 07 February 2019, 11:25:42 PM »

There was something involving the British and Empire around the turn of the century but is South Africa outside the definition of the world Undecided
Logged

2018 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!
Ithoriel
Lieutenant General
*
Posts: 6881



« Reply #3 on: 08 February 2019, 12:14:26 AM »

One half of my Higher History syllabus at school was Great Britain and Europe: 1815-1913 and I am convinced by that course that absolutely nothing of any significance at all happened in that period in those locations.

I was so enthused by the course that I answered questions on The Armies and Generalship of Gustavus Adolphus, The Borders Of The Roman Empire from the Reforms of Marius to the Death of Marcus Aurelius and The Code Napoleon ... to the horror of my History teacher who presumed I knew nothing about any those.

I got an "A" pass and the school History Prize out of it.
Logged

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!
Last Hussar
Major General
*
Posts: 3053



« Reply #4 on: 08 February 2019, 12:35:06 AM »

The Battle of Britain.

Defenders rarely 'win' battles. They just don't lose before the attacker gives up.

The RAF were 24-48 hours from destruction when the Luftwaffe stopped bombing airfields and bombed London instead.

Imagine 1940 where the Luftwaffe had air supremacy (not superiority).  It doesn't matter the relative strengths of RN v KM - no air opposition, the Seelowe supply lines stay open.

Imagine Britain falling - it doesn't have to be occupied, just has to stay out of the war.
Logged

I have neither the time or the crayons to explain why you are wrong.
fsn
General
*
Posts: 8945



« Reply #5 on: 08 February 2019, 07:38:38 AM »

Sorry LH, a good effort but you didn't RTFQ.

Since 1914-1945 have a large number of offerings, I (with Sir E's ghostly approval) restricted the date range to 1816-1913.

One half of my Higher History syllabus at school was Great Britain and Europe: 1815-1913 and I am convinced by that course that absolutely nothing of any significance at all happened in that period in those locations.
That echoes the sentiment behind the question really.



Last night, after being woken by what I thought was  a military parade, but turned out to be one energetic drunk, I thought about the Greek War of Independence. Again, Sir E would approve, and it does seem to be a rather important event.
Logged

Lord Oik of Runcorn
(You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013
Oik of the Year 2014
Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!

15mm is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
Last Hussar
Major General
*
Posts: 3053



« Reply #6 on: 08 February 2019, 07:55:52 AM »

Oh fartyfudgeballs, I managed to forget that bit by the time I finished reading the OP.
Logged

I have neither the time or the crayons to explain why you are wrong.
mad lemmey
Marquis
********
*
*
Posts: 20992



« Reply #7 on: 08 February 2019, 08:32:04 AM »

Thought there was nothing of interest outside the empire anyway? The following are with my Imperial tongue firmly in cheek...
Great Paraguayan War might get in as a footnote,  because look what they get up to when we aren't there to tell them what to do?
Opium Wars and Boxer Rebellion, not worth a second, it's our right to sell highly addictive drugs for a massive profit.
Fenian Raids, look what a small band of our loyal colonists can do...
I can imagine 6 or 7 chapters given over to the War of Jenkins Ear or Zanzibar...
Logged

Off to the Shed of Decency.

Chekov's Gun, Occam's Razor, and Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle walk into a bar. You won't believe what happens next!

2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner 😎
steve_holmes_11
Lieutenant Colonel
*
Posts: 781


« Reply #8 on: 08 February 2019, 08:52:18 AM »

Let me put in a call for Greek Independence. 1822 onward.

1. It temporarily aligned the diplomatic (and occasionally military) efforts of otherwise mutually hostile European powers in the cause of pan-hellenism.
2. It re-ignited Pan-Orthodoxy in Russia - a movement that led to Abyssinia receiving modern armaments prior to the Italian invasion.
3. It triggered a new series of Russo-Turkish and Balkan wars which saw a crumbling of the Ottoman toehold in Europe.
4. The naval battle of Navarino Bay destroyed Turkish / Egyptian seapower, sundering the links between Anatolia and the North African provinces.
5. Accelerated the rate of Ottoman decline.
6. Provided a prototype for later anti-Ottoman nationalist revolts.

Logged
Leman
Field Marshal
*
Posts: 10647



« Reply #9 on: 08 February 2019, 09:34:00 AM »

Somehow I donít think the Poles, Russians, Belgians, Hungarians, Germans, Danes, USA, Mexico or the whole of South America would say that nothing of note happened between 1815 and 1851.
Logged

The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
Dr Dave
Guest
« Reply #10 on: 08 February 2019, 09:47:38 AM »

Spanish American war?

Not that many battles
Knocked Spain out as a global power (and a European one)
Gave the USA an empire in one fell swoop and set her up as the new global power.
Logged
Leman
Field Marshal
*
Posts: 10647



« Reply #11 on: 08 February 2019, 09:53:47 AM »

Yes, always makes me smile when American politicians start to complain about the imperial ambitions of the European powers. The Roman republic adequately demonstrated that you donít need an emperor to have an empire.
Logged

The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
FierceKitty
Field Marshal
*
Posts: 10705


The dog is a peasant. The cat is a gentleman.


« Reply #12 on: 08 February 2019, 10:21:44 AM »

Yes, always makes me smile when American politicians start to complain about the imperial ambitions of the European powers. The Roman republic adequately demonstrated that you donít need an emperor to have an empire.

Oh, yes, you do.
Logged

I have not the pleasure of understanding you. Of what are you talking?
Techno
Count
*******
*
*
Posts: 19902



« Reply #13 on: 08 February 2019, 10:41:01 AM »

Ooooooh......Is it Panto time ?

HE'S BEHIND YOU. !

Cheers - Mr Muppet. Tongue
Logged

FSN IS an oik...I wonder when he'll change his signature again . :-)
Techno....AND STILL.....The most picked on member of the forum since 2011
fsn
General
*
Posts: 8945



« Reply #14 on: 08 February 2019, 01:02:29 PM »

I'm going with Mr Holmes's eminently sensible suggestion that the Greek War of Independece, specifically the Battle of Navarino as a marker of the decline of Ottoman power. Also the last major sea battle entirely under sail.

I also like Dr Dave's idea of the Spanish American War for the death of Spanish imperialism and the birth of the "American Century". Perhaps (although it wasn't really a battle, the loss of the Maine?)

Lemmey's suggestions don't show the Empire in a good light - so are discounted.


No takers for Tsushima or Port Arthur?



Logged

Lord Oik of Runcorn
(You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013
Oik of the Year 2014
Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!

15mm is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!