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Author Topic: Overstuffed market?  (Read 48630 times)
ianrs54
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« Reply #165 on: 14 June 2018, 01:58:59 PM »

Course my stuff is purrrrrrfec.... Cheesy
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Ben Waterhouse
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« Reply #166 on: 14 June 2018, 02:07:51 PM »

I don't... Herrumph.
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Ithoriel
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« Reply #167 on: 14 June 2018, 03:05:29 PM »

Nice post Steve.

As far as I'm concerned wargamers have never had it so good. There has never been such a breadth of rules, figures and scenics nor such a plethora of information.

Rules sets will come and go, figure lines will appear and disappear - twas always thus. But, thanks to the interwebs we can often source figures long since "out-of-print" and get updates to rule sets long abandoned by the original publishers.

As to the problem of remembering rules, how hard is it? Wargames rules tend to have very similar underlying structures and there are a limited number of mechanisms being used. Quick Ref charts list the minutiae of factors, exceptions, distances.

Frankly, so long as everyone enjoys themselves, I'm not too fussed if we don't get the rules exactly right.

Then again I'm not too fussed if figures are exactly right, providing everyone knows what is what.

"Accept certain inalienable truths, prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too will get old, and when you do you'll fantasize that when you were young prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders." Smiley

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Leman
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« Reply #168 on: 14 June 2018, 03:18:13 PM »

........and houses were always the right size.
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Ithoriel
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« Reply #169 on: 14 June 2018, 03:43:44 PM »

........and houses were always the right size.

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy .... if only Smiley
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steve_holmes_11
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« Reply #170 on: 14 June 2018, 06:46:10 PM »

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy .... if only Smiley

Mine is certainly getting too small for all the unfinished projects.

I didn't drill down on rules during my first n00b post.

What I do see in the contemporary hobby are some strong trends and "crossover".

Crossover from the world of boardgames and RPGs is certainly influencing the waves of skirmish rules that are arriving.
It's not for everybody.
Skirmish typically makes for small forces (few figures), but requires more and detailed terrain.
Rules seem easier to produce, but tend to come and go in a hurry.
With that comes the race to produce the "Next big thing".

I certainly see a larger manufacturers looking to follow the "Nottingham school" of gamer supply.
Frequent releases, versions, codexing - and a well trained cohort of obedient fanboys will lap this stuff up.

For us older types, there are companies with more stable release schedules and more complete offerings.

What the fanboys praise as "support" will look to the grognards as "nickel-and-diming" (I'm not sure there's a Queen's english term).


The big game-changer of course has been the Internet.
Suddenly an obscure hobby is accessible across the globe, and gamers can share reviews, battle reports and photographs.
Relatively small manufacturers can reach another hemisphere provided they can master the intricacies of postage, packing and customs.
As one who once bought figures unseen based on text descriptions in magazine advertisements, it's a luxury to visit a fine website with pictures of the product and online purchase.

I've drifted somewhere away form the rules, so let me return with a question.
What drives the market?
 * Do the rules sell the figures?
 * Do the figures sell the rules?
 * Does interest in a specific setting draw customers to figures and rules?
 * Do we increasingly follow the "Nottingham model": sourcing paints, brushes, figures and rules form a single supplier?
 * Where does scale/size fit into the whole picture?
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #171 on: 14 June 2018, 06:46:51 PM »

As far as I'm concerned wargamers have never had it so good. There has never been such a breadth of rules, figures and scenics nor such a plethora of information.

Rules sets will come and go, figure lines will appear and disappear - twas always thus...

I'm a little confused. Are people complaining about TOO MUCH CHOICE?

I like M&S Sandwiches - I have 2 or 3 favourites, but I don't fret bout the other 8 types they make that I don't like. What I do is this: I choose not to buy them. I literally pretend that they don't exist. So when someone posts about "frost grave" I have not the slightest idea what it is, what the figures look like, or even when or where it is set. I think it might be cold.

Just buy what you like and ignore the rest  Wink
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T13A
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« Reply #172 on: 14 June 2018, 07:37:50 PM »

Hi

I don't think people are concerned about having too much choice in rules (or figures for that matter) as such. It is just that one of the consequences of that is finding enough like minded people to play the rules that you particularly like with.

Cheers Paul

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Ithoriel
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« Reply #173 on: 14 June 2018, 07:40:38 PM »

Mine is certainly getting too small for all the unfinished projects.

The comment from Leman was a gentle poke at my regular posts on my bete noir - the use of houses a scale below the scale of the figures. 10mm figures and 6mm houses for example.

Though I can also empathise with the need for more lead pile storage space!
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Orcs
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« Reply #174 on: 14 June 2018, 08:20:45 PM »

Personally I find a set of rules that I like and stick with them.  they may not be perfect, they ay have added a couple of house rules, or adapted the turn order or other minor tweaks, but I stick with them.

I will buy/play other sets if they get good reviews or someone at club buys them.  What I do not to do is play a set of rules because they are "trendy".

At club we play several sets of rules that we  have not considered upgrading eg Peter pigs AK47 Version 2. BKC2. Fire and Fury. Shako

I accept that some people like rules that I find awful,  as long as I do not have to play them that's fine.

Can we have too many?  Probably not , but it does mean  that they are likely to be lest profitable as the more rules for a given period the thinner the "customer pie" has to be sliced

I also prefer rules where they are not spread out over a lots of colour pages that you constantly have to flick through.

 


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steve_holmes_11
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« Reply #175 on: 14 June 2018, 09:41:05 PM »

The comment from Leman was a gentle poke at my regular posts on my bete noir - the use of houses a scale below the scale of the figures. 10mm figures and 6mm houses for example.

Though I can also empathise with the need for more lead pile storage space!

Ahh - small houses, big soldiers - I see i have much to learn..


I'm doing something similar with a very personal orc tribe setting.
15mm Orcses - living in 10mm Yurts from everybody's favourite mini company.
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grahambeyrout
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« Reply #176 on: 12 February 2019, 04:05:58 PM »

If there is money in it, and people will buy, the mad avalanche of rules will continue. I was friendly with a  rule publisher in the 1970s. He said, in a sense, the quality of the rules were irrelevant. His expectation was that most of his customers would buy them just to see what they were like, and majority would play a few times, and move on the next set to be published. It could be said that rule buyers are seeking the Holy Grail, and will continue on their quest to find the perfect set of rules no matter what. What amazes me is that people cheerfully  spend £30-£40 on what may well be a pig in a poke. 
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steve_holmes_11
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« Reply #177 on: 12 February 2019, 10:55:33 PM »

If there is money in it, and people will buy, the mad avalanche of rules will continue. I was friendly with a  rule publisher in the 1970s. He said, in a sense, the quality of the rules were irrelevant. His expectation was that most of his customers would buy them just to see what they were like, and majority would play a few times, and move on the next set to be published. It could be said that rule buyers are seeking the Holy Grail, and will continue on their quest to find the perfect set of rules no matter what. What amazes me is that people cheerfully  spend £30-£40 on what may well be a pig in a poke. 

I've certainly modified my rules-buying in the light of the £20 pricetag.
Some rules i might have bought, with no expectation of play now remain on the shelf (Most recently - What a Tanker).
Other times I'll think carefully before buying - and wait for several on-line reviews.

I'm more amenable to dive in when it's an Osprey priced between £9 and £11.

Back in the days when rules were a fiver for staple binding and thicker card covers, I'd buy anything that caught my eye.


Retail professionals would have something significant to say about "price points" or "elastic demand".
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