Pendraken Miniatures Forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
17 June 2019, 04:08:46 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
The 2019 Pendraken Catalogue is now available to download!
278296 Posts in 16631 Topics by 2186 Members
Latest Member: dennisr
* Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
+  Pendraken Miniatures Forum
|-+  Wider Wargaming
| |-+  Genre/Period Discussion
| | |-+  20th Century (Moderator: GordonY)
| | | |-+  Tank Platoons, c.1962
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Tank Platoons, c.1962  (Read 938 times)
Raider4
Major
*
Posts: 605



« on: 12 December 2018, 07:00:19 PM »

Howdo all,

So far I've got Americans as 5 tanks per platoon, Soviet & other Warsaw Pact armies at 3, and the Brits at 4 (per troop).

Anybody know how French or the West Germans were organised?

Thanks, M.
--
Logged
pierre the shy
Lieutenant Colonel
*
Posts: 852



« Reply #1 on: 13 December 2018, 08:42:47 AM »

I got this from Bruce Rea-Taylor's "Modern Army Lists and organisations for the 1950's and 60's" that I happen to have lying around  Wink

French

Tank Coy 1958 - 68
Coy HQ - 1 x M47 or AMX 30
4 platoons each with 3 x M47 or AMX 30

Light Tank Coy 1960's
Coy HQ - 2 x AMX 13
3 platoons each with 5 x AMX 13's
1 platoon with 5 x AMX13 armed with SS11 ATGW's

West Germans

Tank Coy 1960's
Coy HQ - 2 x M 48 or Leopard 1 (from 1965)
3 platoons each with 5 x M48 or Leopard 1 (from 1965)

Tank Destroyer Coy (in Panzer Grenadier Brigade from ca 1965)
Coy HQ - 1 x Jagd Kannone
2 platoons each with 4 x Jagd Rakettes armed with SS11 ATGW's
3 platoons each with 4 x Jagd Kannones

Tank Destroyer Coy (in Panzer Brigade from ca 1965)
Coy HQ - 1 x Jagd Kannone
3 platoons each with 4 x Jagd Rakettes armed with SS11 ATGW's
Logged

"Repeat Please"
Dr Dave
Major
*
Posts: 689



« Reply #2 on: 13 December 2018, 02:50:00 PM »

Don't forget that Russian tanks are in 3 strong platoons for a tank unit, but 4 if they're from a tank bttn in a MR Regt - so 13 per coy in that case.  Wink
Logged

“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,
And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 350



« Reply #3 on: 13 December 2018, 05:11:17 PM »

Some details in the MicroMark collection over at the Wargames Vault:
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/85717/G207M-West-German-Panzer-Brigade-HS2-19621963-West-Germany
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/85719/G208M-West-German-Panzer-Grenadier-Brigade-HS2-19621964
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/86265/R62M-Russian-Tank-Division-19581964-East-Europe
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/86268/R65M-Russian-Motor-Rifle-Division-19581964-East-Europe
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/84537/A58M-American-Armoured-Division-19581962-all-theatres

Mark
Logged
Raider4
Major
*
Posts: 605



« Reply #4 on: 13 December 2018, 07:19:33 PM »

Thank you, pierre the shy. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Cheers, M.
--
Logged
ianrs54
Playtester
Lieutenant General
*
Posts: 6705



WWW
« Reply #5 on: 14 December 2018, 08:08:52 AM »

Er - British were in 3's, Squadron had HQ, with IC 2IC and Dozer, 4 Troops of 3.
Logged

FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF HURRAY
mad lemmey
Count
*******
*
*
Posts: 19253



« Reply #6 on: 14 December 2018, 01:12:51 PM »

There was a brief experiment with 4s (it's an on running argument with Timecast boys), but the washing up was too much.
Logged

Chekov's Gun, Occam's Razor, and Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle walk into a bar. You won't believe what happens next!

2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner 😎
Raider4
Major
*
Posts: 605



« Reply #7 on: 14 December 2018, 05:37:28 PM »

Er - British were in 3's, Squadron had HQ, with IC 2IC and Dozer, 4 Troops of 3.

Oh, for pickle's sake . . .

I had assumed that the 4-tank troop introduced in the Medium/Cruiser armoured battalions in 1944 had continued post-WW2, when they upgraded their Shermans/Cromwells/Comets to Centurions.

This is mostly based on knowing that the Aussies in Vietnam used 4-tank troops, and I'd assumed they still followed UK practices.

I know from lots of sources on the web that post-1980 troops were 3 strong, but information for 1950-1980 seems to be much harder to accumulate.

So, does anyone know when UK armoured troops reverted back from 4 to only 3 tanks? (pierre the shy's book may be very useful here . . .)

Thanks, M.
--
Logged
sultanbev
Playtester
Captain
*
Posts: 350



« Reply #8 on: 14 December 2018, 05:43:47 PM »

You have to remember the late WW2 4-tank troop was an anomaly - it was a three tank troop with a Firefly added. Comets then followed this 4-tank troop for the duration of the war, as it was easier to retrain troop crews that way. And Churchills remained 3-tank troops through out.

Pretty much as soon as the war ended and demobilisation started, 3-tank troops were back in fashion. It was only in the mid 1970s when they returned for a while, to give us massive 74-Chieftain tank regiments.

Mark



Logged
ianrs54
Playtester
Lieutenant General
*
Posts: 6705



WWW
« Reply #9 on: 15 December 2018, 07:45:31 AM »

Roughly 1945, after the fireflies disappeared. Certainly Cents were never in 4 vehicle troops. It was proposed in the early 80's, but probably not enacted, due to manning problems. The vehicles existed to make Armoured rgts up to 4 squadrons, with 4 troops of 4, but the crews weren't there.
Logged

FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF HURRAY
T13A
Lieutenant
*
Posts: 289



« Reply #10 on: 15 December 2018, 09:22:17 AM »

Hi

This probably does not help much but in the mid seventies in BAOR we (2RTR) had 3 tanks (Chieftain) per troop as standard. However for a few months I definitely remember going to 4 tanks per troop as an experiment before reverting back to 3. In practice of course tanks frequently breakdown... in our case usually next to a bar or café.

T13A out
Logged
Sunray
Brigadier
*
Posts: 1953


« Reply #11 on: 15 December 2018, 11:11:23 AM »

Hi

This probably does not help much but in the mid seventies in BAOR we (2RTR) had 3 tanks (Chieftain) per troop as standard. However for a few months I definitely remember going to 4 tanks per troop as an experiment before reverting back to 3. In practice of course tanks frequently breakdown... in our case usually next to a bar or café.

T13A out

Thanks T13A,  that brings back a few memories.  I can recall the CFB Suffield "wargames"( after we go kicked out of sand pit playground in Tobruk)  with the Battlegroup having  2 squadrons in troops of 4 Smokey Joes .   Perhaps that is where Head Shed got the idea for the experiment ?
Our hosts  were still operating Centurions at that time.  Smiley
Logged
T13A
Lieutenant
*
Posts: 289



« Reply #12 on: 15 December 2018, 03:40:58 PM »

Hi Sunray

Apologies for going off topic but…. Suffield brings back memories. I can remember in August 1976 flying out to Canada the day after my 21st birthday as part of an Irish Guards battle group (4th Guards Armoured Brigade, Munster) and not feeling very well. After prepping the vehicles for a couple of days we went out onto the prairie. I remember getting out of my sleeping bag after the first night covered in spots. On being sent back to see a doc. he laughed out loud saying ‘that’s chicken pox’ and being whisked away to a small Canadian military hospital and spending the next 10 days in isolation. They were terrified that I had contaminated a 600 man battle group sent all the way from Germany to Canada. Fortunately I made it back to my troop for the main live firing exercise at the end of the deployment. The sight of a whole battlegroup of Chieftains, infantry and artillery firing together at night is something that will remain with me till the day I die.

Cheers Paul
Logged
paulr
General
*
*
Posts: 8043


« Reply #13 on: 15 December 2018, 06:39:53 PM »

No need to apologise T13A that's more on topic than most comments in most threads Wink Grin

And very interesting
Logged

2018 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!
Sunray
Brigadier
*
Posts: 1953


« Reply #14 on: 16 December 2018, 10:58:08 AM »

Hi Sunray

Apologies for going off topic but…. Suffield brings back memories. I can remember in August 1976 flying out to Canada the day after my 21st birthday as part of an Irish Guards battle group (4th Guards Armoured Brigade, Munster) and not feeling very well. After prepping the vehicles for a couple of days we went out onto the prairie. I remember getting out of my sleeping bag after the first night covered in spots. On being sent back to see a doc. he laughed out loud saying ‘that’s chicken pox’ and being whisked away to a small Canadian military hospital and spending the next 10 days in isolation. They were terrified that I had contaminated a 600 man battle group sent all the way from Germany to Canada. Fortunately I made it back to my troop for the main live firing exercise at the end of the deployment. The sight of a whole battlegroup of Chieftains, infantry and artillery firing together at night is something that will remain with me till the day I die.

Cheers Paul

Thanks for sharing Paul.  Grin  And feel free to express the reality check of squaddie experience when you see fit.  The forum loves black humour.
Suffield was usually a very positive experience.  It allowed a level of exercise that was impossible on "the Plain" or the crowded German countryside.  Were you ever send on a  vital mission to check the real width of the village street ? (Lots of narrow streets around Seesen).  The ability to squeeze through without dislodging medieval brickwork could win or loose an exercise.

There were towns like Padreborn that even constructed special "Panzerringstrasse" .  I am sure the KGB made notes of how they could use them to downsize FIBUA and keep the momentum.   As my OC put it " If Bastogne had had a Panzerringstrasse the Germans would have won the Battle of the Bulge".  Make a note  Cold War gamers.   

But I digress.
The greatest threat to a British Army unit during the Cold War era, was not the Warsaw Pack, but a crowd of suits from MoD evaluating "efficient amalgamations".   Could it be that the three tanks per  troop as opposed to the four, kept a regiment functional on paper? Shocked Shocked

 

« Last Edit: 16 December 2018, 11:05:19 AM by Sunray » Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!