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15 November 2018, 08:14:40 AM

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Author Topic: 1809 Saxon flags  (Read 234 times)
Leman
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« on: 07 November 2018, 10:31:24 AM »

Does anyone out there happen to know wether Saxon flags of the WSS period would still be ok for the 1809 campaign? Thanks in advance.
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The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
Zippee
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« Reply #1 on: 07 November 2018, 10:42:06 AM »

To quote myself from the NKS thread:

Saxony
The leibsgarde and each line regiment were each issued 1802 pattern standards (the 1807 pattern replacements were ordered in November 1807 and presented in 1811) which measured 157cm x 144.5cm.
1 leibsfahne was issued to the 1st battalion and 1 ordinarsfahne to the 2nd battalion of each regiment
None of the converged grenadier or schutzen battalions were issued standards

It's a very long stretch from WSS to 1809, the standards carried in 1809 were the 1802 issue. Given the change in structure of the army over that hundred years I doubt very much that the flags would be transferable (even if similar stylistically), especially as each flag was distinguished by specific regimental lace and border patterns.
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Leman
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« Reply #2 on: 07 November 2018, 12:39:08 PM »

Thanks Zippee - me being lazy Iím afraid. I went on Warflag and they are all there to download, resize and print off. Thanks for the kick up the bum.
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The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
mollinary
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« Reply #3 on: 07 November 2018, 01:48:53 PM »

Sadly the 1802 flags on Napflags/Warflags contain many errors. The obverse and reverse are the wrong way round. The coat of arms shown is that of Poland, not Saxony. The cartouche containing the Royal monogram should be white in all casrs, not in field colour.
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Zippee
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« Reply #4 on: 07 November 2018, 02:53:46 PM »

Indeed, sadly warflag was a great thing but the lack of update and ownership is now really starting to show.

Still I'm glad it still exists even frozen in time as it is - better approximately accurate flags than no flags at all and there is a lot of useful info hidden away in there.
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mollinary
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« Reply #5 on: 07 November 2018, 03:24:44 PM »

Agreed, and as far as I can tell the info on early Wurttemberg flags, which identifies a source, is pretty good.
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Leman
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« Reply #6 on: 07 November 2018, 06:43:34 PM »

By the time Iíve shrunk the beggars down to 6mm it wonít really matter.
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The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
Chad
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« Reply #7 on: 07 November 2018, 06:45:32 PM »

Could I ask if the SYW Saxon flags would be suitable for the French Revolutionary period?
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mollinary
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« Reply #8 on: 07 November 2018, 06:57:07 PM »

Again, sadly, no. There is some evidence that one regiment carried its SYW flag until 1802, but there was a complete issue of a new design of painted flags to the infantry in 1785. 
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Zippee
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« Reply #9 on: 07 November 2018, 09:33:02 PM »

By the time Iíve shrunk the beggars down to 6mm it wonít really matter.

I printed mine at 25% for 6mm, look fine and surprisingly detailed.


Some hessians as an example
1st Leib Garde Regiment 05 (II Battalion) by Zippee Jerred, on Flickr

the number of people who might spot the errors really aren't worrying about  Cheesy
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mollinary
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Posts: 2732


« Reply #10 on: 07 November 2018, 09:50:04 PM »

Frankly, they are your troops, you can do what you like with them, regardless of what others think. That said, if Pendraken produce flags for the period I am sure we would all expect them to be as accurate as possible - and I am sure they will be!
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John Cook
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« Reply #11 on: 08 November 2018, 02:43:28 AM »

Agreed, and as far as I can tell the info on early Wurttemberg flags, which identifies a source, is pretty good.


They were taken from an article I wrote a long time, if you refer to the ones I think you do.  The information came mainly from Feldzeichen des Koniglich Wurttembergischen Heeres - Handbuch der Fahnen and Standarten 1806 bis 1918 by Herbert Hahn. 
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mollinary
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« Reply #12 on: 08 November 2018, 08:17:36 AM »


They were taken from an article I wrote a long time, if you refer to the ones I think you do.  The information came mainly from Feldzeichen des Koniglich Wurttembergischen Heeres - Handbuch der Fahnen and Standarten 1806 bis 1918 by Herbert Hahn. 

Hi John,  the information I refer to is, indeed, sourced from your article. Thanks for sharing  the oriignal source. It is not one I have seen myself, but I shall if I can track ir down.  My main expertise regarding Wurttemberg flags is for the mid 19th century, having managed to pick up the original samples of the 1851 cavalry samples pepared for the Wurttemeberg government at an auction a few years ago!
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mollinary
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« Reply #13 on: 08 November 2018, 12:43:12 PM »


They were taken from an article I wrote a long time, if you refer to the ones I think you do.  The information came mainly from Feldzeichen des Koniglich Wurttembergischen Heeres - Handbuch der Fahnen and Standarten 1806 bis 1918 by Herbert Hahn. 

Copy ordered!
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John Cook
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« Reply #14 on: 09 November 2018, 03:27:17 AM »

Copy ordered!


I'm sure you won't regret it.  The illustrations - colour and BW of the original artefacts are worth it alone.  More than that, the book is a good overview of the army and sorts out the tangled web of regimental titles, changes and when. 
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