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Author Topic: BKC2 query (prior to release of BKC4)  (Read 1569 times)
AJ at the Bank
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« on: 04 November 2018, 09:31:54 AM »

Hi fellow groupies.

A recent game of BKC2 in our small gaming group brought up a couple of questions that I would welcome understanding how others play -

Q1: Moving into an unoccupied Trench or Pit (either previously friendly or enemy held defence)
Terrain rules on p19 and the Terrain Movement Summary on p140, are both clear that movement for Troops on foot, tracked AFVs and Cavalry, treat Trenches & Pits as a Linear Terrain Obstacle. Page 19 states that these units stop when contacting Linear Terrain, may then cross and then move full distance on the next successful order.

Does this mean that Units entering Trenches/Pits to take up position should stop at the edge of the Field Defence ...and then enter next move? Or should Units stop within the Trench/Pit - similar to entry/exit of Area Terrain?

When looking to see if there had been any clarification from Pete/others on the old Forum - all I could find was a note from Pete confirming a rules clarification on Close Assault ...where it was ok for Infantry to use a Consolidation move to get back into trenches they had previously left to conduct the CA.

What do others do and why please?

Q2 : Tactical Doctrine Adjustment to Breakpoint calc (p43).

Does the Flexible or Rigid Doctrine Breakpoint adjustment per 1000 points apply for every FULL 1000 points in a Battlegroup (like maximum Unit Limits on p44) or not. I.e. Does a Flexible Battlegroup with 800 points get a -1 or nil adjustment? Does a Rigid 1600 point Battlegroup get a +1 or a +2 adjustment?


Thoughts very welcome!
Please forgive the cross posting onto the old Forum too.
Thanks
AJ
« Last Edit: 04 November 2018, 09:34:16 AM by AJ at the Bank » Logged

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Steve J
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« Reply #1 on: 04 November 2018, 11:40:25 AM »

Q1: Personally I would allow them to enter the trench or gun-pit on the move they contacted it, as per area terrain. My reasoning is that they would want to get into cover straight away.

Q2: An 800 point Battlegroup with Flexible Tactical Doctrine must surely get a -1 deduction? However this points allocation bit I've never been that clear on or happy with, so tend to go with what feels right to me.
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petercooman
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« Reply #2 on: 04 November 2018, 12:13:37 PM »

1: we let them take cover. Reasoning that if you want to cross a wall, you move upto it, and cross it next move. While you are upto the wall you count as in cover as well. So seems logical to treat all linear obstacles the same.

2. We count per 1000 point "slots". The moment you pads the 1st 1000 points you are in the next "slot"
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AJ at the Bank
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« Reply #3 on: 04 November 2018, 12:35:55 PM »

Thanks Peter

Ref (2) -   Does that mean you apply an adjustment when the Battlegroup has 800 points?
Thanks
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petercooman
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« Reply #4 on: 04 November 2018, 01:38:23 PM »

Yes.

Just double checked with the online battlegroup calculator. Made a 750 point army with 12 units, and got a breakpoint of 5, so you get the modifier.

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AJ at the Bank
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« Reply #5 on: 04 November 2018, 02:49:18 PM »

Thanks Peter

I thought the Battlegroup calculator was not working on Doctrine adjustment.
E.g. If creating a 1600 point group - it didn't seem to uplift any adjustment, compared to an 800 point group.
Also - if creating a 2000 point group ....it still seems to only deducts 1 from the Breakpoint.

Maybe it is meant to work the same as Army Limits - with one rule for a Group up to 1999 points ..and then change limits when the Group reaches 2000 points?
You would think something this fundamental would be an obvious one - guess not!
 :-
Adam
« Last Edit: 04 November 2018, 03:49:53 PM by AJ at the Bank » Logged

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Shedman
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« Reply #6 on: 04 November 2018, 02:59:53 PM »

Maybe it works the same as Army Limits - with one rule for a Group up to 1999 points ..and then change limits when the Group reaches 2000 points?

That is the way we play "per 1000 points" in FWC ie 1 to 1999, 2000 to 2999 etc
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Genom
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« Reply #7 on: 04 November 2018, 05:45:05 PM »

1) we play you stop and occupy on next movement. Which makes more sense in my head when it's the enemy trench as you might consider checking that they've not left any booby traps for you.
2) we play with or part thereof for breakpoints, but usually on the occasion when we're making up our own forces rather than using orbats we tend to take the limits from the lower 1000pts, so a 1400pt force would use the limits for a 1000pts
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AJ at the Bank
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« Reply #8 on: 04 November 2018, 05:52:01 PM »

Thanks Andy

On (2) for clarity :
(i) You give an 800 point Flexible Battlegroup a nil Breakpoint Adjustment (rounding down)?
(ii) You give a 1400 point Flexible Battlegroup a -1 Adjustment?
(iii) You give a 2000 point Flexible Battlegroup a -2 Adjustment?

Thanks
Adam
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Leon
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« Reply #9 on: 04 November 2018, 09:08:20 PM »

Just to derail slightly, is anyone else curious what that bookmark is on Peter's screenshot, titled 'Aan de Slag'?   Cheesy
« Last Edit: 04 November 2018, 10:04:32 PM by Leon » Logged

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AJ at the Bank
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« Reply #10 on: 04 November 2018, 09:49:08 PM »

I think it is Dutch for 'Start' or 'Begin'.

...Now we can get minds out of the gutter and back to loftier thoughts!


 Grin Grin
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petercooman
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« Reply #11 on: 04 November 2018, 09:49:55 PM »

Just to detail slightly, is anyone else curious what that bookmark is on Peter's screenshot, titled 'Aan de Slag'?   Cheesy

"aan de slag" means "get started"

Hate to be a partypooper Leon, but it's the "get started with firefox" bookmark that is standard on your browser  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


edit: seems AJ was ahead of me with his post!
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Leon
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« Reply #12 on: 04 November 2018, 10:05:43 PM »

Well that's no fun!  Strangely I've never had that bookmark appear on my Firefox, I'll have to go see where it's gone to.
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petercooman
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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #13 on: 04 November 2018, 10:11:54 PM »

Always been here. I'm on windows 7 though, don't know if that makes a difference.
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Genom
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« Reply #14 on: 04 November 2018, 10:26:05 PM »

On (2) for clarity :
(i) You give an 800 point Flexible Battlegroup a nil Breakpoint Adjustment (rounding down)?
(ii) You give a 1400 point Flexible Battlegroup a -1 Adjustment?
(iii) You give a 2000 point Flexible Battlegroup a -2 Adjustment?

For Breakpoints we use for every 1000pts or part thereof or in other words round up to the nearest thousand.
(i) 800pts, is part of a thousand so -1.
(ii) 1400pts, is -2 for 1 full thousand and part of a thousand.
(iii) 2000pts is -2 for 2 full thousands.

Apologies for adding the other bit, the lower bracket was for orbat troop limits, so the 1[3] for example for a troop type, we tend to use the lower options. so at 1400 pts, we would only be allowed 1 of that troop type, to get  2 you'd need to be at 2000pts.
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