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Author Topic: so apparently we are buying f-35s ...  (Read 1475 times)
petercooman
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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #15 on: 22 October 2018, 06:46:23 PM »

Thanks for the info all!

Have been reading about it myself a bit, and from my understanding the dutch air force will be getting the same ones, and we work togheter quite a bit, so that looks to be a factor as well.

And for what it's worth, i remember one of our f-16's crashing during training years ago, so sadly those are things that happen. My guess if it's a production failure, and it can be pointed out, that would be insured ( i think).
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Sunray
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« Reply #16 on: 23 October 2018, 02:44:38 AM »

And meanwhile we had a decent forum discussion about contemporary airpower.

A good friend of mine is a member of the Irish Senate. Over the last decade the Irish have - to put it bluntly - compromised their neutrality, over allowing the USAF " facilities" at Shannon.   This did not go unnoticed in Moscow.  Hence the Bears going on the prowl.   

The Czechs offered six L159s at a bargain basement price, but it was the cost of new radar and support that the Irish balked at.   Since the crash of 2007, the Irish Gov has been tight fisted on defence. Irish GDP/per head is 43k Euro.  Finland by comparison (almost equal pop) has GDP/per head of 36k Euro and over fifty F18 Hornets !

One corollary of Brexit is that the Irish have joined PESCO, and are getting a bid ready to tender for an EU military training centre at the Curragh.
With the UK leaving the EU, the argument that NATO will suffice Europe will weaken, and the lobby for an EU army will be stronger. 
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fsn
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« Reply #17 on: 23 October 2018, 07:43:48 AM »

My understanding of the F35 is that it is supposed to be able to to anything - ground attack, air superiority, VTOL, carrier.

Logic would suggest that's not really possible. Either that or the commonality between versions is fairly low.

Is this a marvellous Swiss Army Knife of an aircraft or a jack of all trades, master of none?
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Lord Oik of Runcorn
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Matt J
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« Reply #18 on: 23 October 2018, 08:31:29 AM »

But for countries with small air forces isn't that exactly what you need?
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Sunray
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« Reply #19 on: 23 October 2018, 08:44:49 AM »

But for countries with small air forces isn't that exactly what you need?

Its the prohibitive cost of these hi tec aircraft.  Most small nations with limited budget will go for surplus F16s, F18s, Gripen etc,.  If the budget/threat is smaller still, then the Hawk 200 would fit the bill.

The qualification is when you have proximity to a hostile neighbour with loads of logistics.  In the Good Old Days of the 1970s the USA subsidised the sale of F-5s to such nations.
« Last Edit: 23 October 2018, 09:41:55 AM by Sunray » Logged
Matt J
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« Reply #20 on: 23 October 2018, 10:37:10 AM »

I was thinking more small NATO nations like Belgium and Netherlands.
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toxicpixie
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« Reply #21 on: 23 October 2018, 11:29:50 AM »

Quote
Westmarcher - * on which we have spent an absolute fortune so can't pay the extra for steam catapults (or the modern equivalent, if there is any)

The answer is rail guns, always rail guns.

Well, a linear magnetic accelerator, anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_Aircraft_Launch_System

Which will be working properly aaaaaany tiiiime nooooooow...

Finland has 50+ F18's because the Russians are right next door Wink In contrast Ireland's neutrality has always been a bit less robust and has had a serious nod a wink at worst to full on official if somewhat blank faced co-operation; see WW2 and the cold war; they're just carrying on the "we're neutral but on your side, just don't say it out loud" policy they've maintained since WW2. If they were next to the Russians I suspect they'd have a much more robust military but be far more careful about exactly how neutral they were...

The thing with "next gen" aircraft is that they're likely to be incrementally better except in the cases where they're really not and there's a sudden jump in capability that renders last gen obsolete. Is the F-35 that? Raptor was supposed to be (but is a dedicated air superiority craft), Typhoon the same (but multi-role), Rafale was cheap and the sales pitch was "eeeee, never mind the quality, feel the width!". It's the sort of thing you only find out in anger, and good logistics, pilot training and munitions can cover a multitude of sins...

Perhaps ask the Israelis, they seem pleased with F-35 so far...

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