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Author Topic: Tell Techno.  (Read 28897 times)
Techno
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« on: 22 August 2018, 01:30:39 PM »

Couple of questions chaps.

(This is just in case the awfully nice chap that's asked me to make him a few figures, is away for a few days and doesn't get a chance to respond to my query to him.)

What is a "pike vertical jack" ?....A particular way of holding the pike ?

Also......what is the difference between an arquebus and a musket ?......Just the size of shot they'd have used ?

Cheers - Mr Thicky.
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FierceKitty
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« Reply #1 on: 22 August 2018, 02:01:11 PM »

Muskets were considerably longer at the beginning of the unhappy history of modern firearms.
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fsn
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« Reply #2 on: 22 August 2018, 02:11:44 PM »

Hi Techno.

Is is "pike vertical, jack"?

The pike vertical being a pike held vertical and the jack being a leather or padded jacket?

Are we talking Tudor period?

The aquebus may need to be a matchlock rather than a flintlock?
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Lord Oik of Runcorn
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« Reply #3 on: 22 August 2018, 02:16:14 PM »

The arquebus developed out of the handgun. It was a relatively handy weapon but could only take a certain amount of powder and thus had a very limited range. the Spanish began to develop the arquebus into the musket sometime in the 1520s. In order to increase range and/or penetration the weapon needed to be considerably longer and heavier. It was much more unwieldy than an arquebus and needed a rest to steady it. Consequently both weapons were in use for a considerable time. Mounted troops and skirmishers continued to use the arquebus. Initially so did the four corners of the tercios, but massed units of musketeers were also used separately to provide devastating firepower. In the C17th, with improvements in design and technology the musket totally usurped the arquebus, eventually becoming light enough not to need a rest. In some respects it could be argued that the carbine replaced the duties of the arquebus among the cavalry.
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Nick the Lemming
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« Reply #4 on: 22 August 2018, 02:16:33 PM »

Vertical pike jack = pike being held straight up rather than at an angle, while the bloke carrying it is wearing a jack (leather or padded cloth usually).

Bit like the bloke on the left, but with a pike.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0157/3412/products/f59a_medium.jpg?v=1346859725

Muskets are lighter and longer than arquebus, and don't need a rest.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Arquebus-and-the-Heavy-Musket
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Techno
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« Reply #5 on: 22 August 2018, 02:18:45 PM »

There's no comma, Nobby.

Not sure about a padded jacket..... Undecided
Nick....You got that in just before I pressed "post" in answer to Nobby's post.

Thanks both - Phil
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Leman
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« Reply #6 on: 22 August 2018, 02:20:08 PM »

The pike vertical jack may well be something used by garage mechanics.
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Nick the Lemming
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« Reply #7 on: 22 August 2018, 02:30:15 PM »

The pike vertical jack may well be something used by garage mechanics.

Or maybe a particular type of dive? Perhaps the client wants some aqua sports figures?

No Nobby, not that sort of water sports.
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Leman
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« Reply #8 on: 22 August 2018, 02:32:29 PM »

 Shocked oooer missus!
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d_Guy
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« Reply #9 on: 22 August 2018, 02:55:38 PM »

Arrived late as always.
The determining question is fsn’s, are these to be c. 17th or c. 16th figures? This would determine what the pikemen might be wearing and how easy it would be to differentiate an arquibus from a musket.

In the mean time envision this: opponents hide in trees, enemy pikemen pass through the trees, opponents reach down from above and “jack the pikemen’s pikes”. (I am aware a more ribald interpretation is possible but not my intent).
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Techno
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« Reply #10 on: 22 August 2018, 02:59:49 PM »

The pike vertical jack may well be something used by garage mechanics.

Andy.....I got that when I tried a 'Google', earlier !!

Thanks for the other replies, too, chaps......You must have hit 'post', just before I did.

Bill, they're Elizabethan.

Cheers - Phil


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SV52
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« Reply #11 on: 22 August 2018, 03:27:04 PM »

A jack is a cheap form of armoured protection mainly used by the common soldier.  They were of several sorts but mainly consisted of layers of cloth with metal plates sewn into them.  On the figures they are easily seen due to their quilted appearance or strong verticals.  Both types appear or PenD figures.  So the guy in question is wearing a jack and holding his pike vertically.

I'm informed that: The matchlock musket originally called a heavy arquebus appeared around 1521. The common or garden arquebus in use before then became inadequate to contend with heavier armour coming into use because of firearms.  So the musket was longer, heavier and of larger calibre, probably why rests were popular. Original arquebuses were not fired from the shoulder, rather from the hip, belly or chest, hence the weird shapes the stocks assumed.
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fsn
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« Reply #12 on: 22 August 2018, 10:00:26 PM »




http://www.tauntongarrison.org/page4.html


https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2016/very-rare-elizabethan-jack-of-plate-armour-bought-by-the-va-at-thomas-del-mar-auction/

https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-16361.html

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GrumpyOldMan
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« Reply #13 on: 22 August 2018, 11:54:47 PM »

Hi Techno

My guess is standing - vertical pike, wearing a jack. There is a Basic Pike Drill doc file (at www.luckhardt.com/Basic_Pike_Drill.doc) that you could share with the punter and he could point to the required position.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan
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Techno
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« Reply #14 on: 23 August 2018, 07:02:47 AM »

Thanks for all the help, again, gang  !

Does look like everyone's in agreement....especially with Vic's last post, and Nobby's piccies.

Couple of other things that have made me wonder on other figures I've been asked to make.

The arquebus was a fairly heavy 'firearm' which would have been used with a 'monopod' to help with aiming....That's right, isn't it ?

Assuming I am right on that one, would a really strong chap have been able to fire this weapon from horseback ?

Cheers - Phil


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