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Author Topic: Tell Techno.  (Read 24619 times)
fsn
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« Reply #15 on: 23 August 2018, 07:52:13 AM »

The arquebus was a fairly heavy 'firearm' which would have been used with a 'monopod' to help with aiming....That's right, isn't it ?
Yes ... and no. Terminology gets a bit confused. I'm away from my books at the mo' but IIRC, arquebus was a fairly generic term; musket was orginally a heavy arquebus, but there were lighter versions - calivers and fusils and the like. To me (and it's not my period) an arquebus should have a monopod - or rest as I think they were known.

Assuming I am right on that one, would a really strong chap have been able to fire this weapon from horseback ?
He'd have to be a bloomin' optimist. Again not my period, but I don't think firing from the saddle would be very effective. I would have thought that anyone with a full length arquebus would be more in the way of mounted infantry.

And this is why I eschew 1500-1700. It's all confused and confusing.
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Lord Oik of Runcorn
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Techno
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« Reply #16 on: 23 August 2018, 10:06:14 AM »

Hmmm....thanks, Matey.

Would cavalry ever dismount so they could use their 'guns'.

That sounds a little bit waffy, as it seems to defeat 'the objective'.

Cheers - Puzzled of Wales
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ianrs54
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« Reply #17 on: 23 August 2018, 10:48:11 AM »

Dont tell Phil anything, he'll only forget it.

And no cavalry didn't regularly dismount to use fire arms till the mid/late 19th Century. Note that 17th Century Dragoons aren't cavalry, but mounted infantry.
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Techno
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« Reply #18 on: 23 August 2018, 11:37:05 AM »

That's just about (being a complete historical Muppet) that I'd have imagined, Ian.

I suppose I could surmise that a 'mounted arquebus'  could be ARMED with said ' big shooty bang stick' (Carrying said 'stick' on his back)....But he'd never tried to 'fire from his horse'.........So, he could 'jump down'.....and then fire.......WHY ?......What a waste of a horse.....and he might 'take out' a whole one infantryman......If he was lucky.....Before he , and his horse, got hacked to bits.

That, to me, seems a tad daft.

Maybe the 'generals' a few hundred years ago didn't bother about the 'grunts'......

What am I saying ? (I'm not THAT stupid.)

Cheers - Phil
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mad lemmey
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« Reply #19 on: 23 August 2018, 12:40:03 PM »

Dismount in cover, work in pairs, one loads one fires, stay out the way of shock cav, prey they ignore you, shoot, remount, scoot.
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« Reply #20 on: 23 August 2018, 12:42:11 PM »

Not entirely silly; you might want to grab a village, ford, or pass, and getting mounted troops there fast could be handy. But cavalry aren't much use on the defensive,,,,
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fsn
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« Reply #21 on: 23 August 2018, 01:10:36 PM »

What FK said.

Strategically it may be advantageous to mount men on horseback. The origial dragoons were just mounted infantry; not expected to get involved in a fight on horsebck, and mounted on inferior nags.

They scored on being able to cover 25 miles a day as opposed to the 10 days of a man on foot. They also arrived fresher than their footslogger bretheren, the horse doing most of the work.
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Lord Oik of Runcorn
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« Reply #22 on: 23 August 2018, 01:37:51 PM »

The shorter Arquebus would have been fired without a rest. It was also used by Light Horse, which would imply that it was light enough  to be fired mounted.  The later longer heavier one needed a rest and developed into Muskets. 

I think I know what range your doing  Wink

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Westmarcher
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« Reply #23 on: 23 August 2018, 01:42:38 PM »

Link to images of a mounted arquebusier, his equipment and firing from his horse*:-

https://www.google.com/search?q=wallhavsen+art+militaire+a+cheval+images+1616&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwifyvzqloPdAhWpKMAKHfHJBi0QsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1420&bih=720#imgrc=cKrJTPbCngPQJM:

* also in Chapter 3 of George Gush's "Renaissance Armies"** (his source is Wallhavsen, Art Militaire Cheval, 1616)
** this book also has a section about the arquebus (aka harquebus, hagbush, hagbut, etc.) in Chapter 2. The musket is described as a heavier and longer type of arquebus.
« Last Edit: 23 August 2018, 01:48:08 PM by Westmarcher » Logged

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Ithoriel
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« Reply #24 on: 23 August 2018, 02:05:37 PM »

Phil, think of a dragoon as a very early version of the thinking that leads to infantry in half-tracks or IFVs.

They are a better infantryman than cavalry are and better cavalry than the infantry are but not as good as either in their own specialisation.
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Westmarcher
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« Reply #25 on: 23 August 2018, 02:24:26 PM »

Phil, in case you don't have Renaissance Armies, some links to more George Gush articles which partially cover the English, Irish and Spanish armies of the Elizabethan era:-

https://myarmoury.com/feature_armies_eng.html
https://myarmoury.com/feature_armies_irish.html
https://myarmoury.com/feature_armies_spanish.html
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d_Guy
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« Reply #26 on: 23 August 2018, 02:41:13 PM »

You seem well supplied with info now, Phil. As you are doing 16th c., one oddity I have not seen (I dont get out much) is there was, for a time, mounted pikemen to accompany the mounted arquibusiers. A quick strike force as fsn suggests. I can not recall any actual deployments of the mounted pikes, but a novelty certainly.
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« Reply #27 on: 23 August 2018, 02:53:04 PM »

This is getting more and more complicated !  Grin Grin Grin Grin (Not really...I'm getting the hang of this now))

It's beginning to sound as though I could get away with almost 'anything'......

But I truly am finding this incredibly interesting.

I think I know what range your doing  Wink

ELIZABETHAN ! (For someone at Pendraken who is not 'Sir' or Milady.).....Can you guess, now ?

Cheers - A Muppet

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« Reply #28 on: 23 August 2018, 03:02:36 PM »

Cheers - A Muppet

Hi Miss Piggy !  Cheesy
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OldenBUA
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« Reply #29 on: 23 August 2018, 03:17:05 PM »

Cavalry in the 16th and 17th century did rely on shooting from horseback.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harquebusier
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