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Author Topic: Napoleonic  (Read 5032 times)
Leon
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« Reply #15 on: 19 August 2019, 01:29:16 PM »

Any plans for regular French infantry for the period to be released?

Other than the Guard types which I need to get done, there's no further plans for specific 1815 French.  The differences to the 1809 uniform are so minor that I'm not sure it's worth us getting them sculpted at the moment.
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Zippee
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« Reply #16 on: 19 August 2019, 04:04:35 PM »

If you continue with the Peninsular expansion as discussed elsewhere then the 'German ally in short tailed coat and shako' will serve pretty well for all Bardin issue French anyway.
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Not Drowning, Waving
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« Reply #17 on: 19 August 2019, 10:38:03 PM »

That would be extremely useful for a wide range of units. Looking forward to their arrival after what would appear to be a long march (assuming the idea of producing them has even left the depot...).
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John Cook
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« Reply #18 on: 20 August 2019, 11:38:44 AM »

"The differences to the 1809 uniform are so minor.....".  I beg to differ Leon, they are as minor as the differences between the various Mks of Cruiser and Sherman tanks.  But, we've had this conversation before Wink
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Zippee
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« Reply #19 on: 20 August 2019, 01:19:10 PM »

have to agree with John here, trying to do the wars of 1804-15 in one range per nation is akin to doing WWII and refusing to acknowledge there is a difference between 1940 and 1944 or betwen Burma and Normandy. it just won't wash  Cheesy

Very broadly most nations go through three significant changes

French - bicorn & long tails - shako & long tails - shako & short tails
Austrian - kasket - helmet - shako
Russia - bicorn - shako 1 - shako 2
Prussia - bicorn - shako [there's always one that don't fit the masterplan!]
Britain - bicorn - stovepipe - belgic

Most of the minor states start off with bicorn or helmet and emerge with shako & short tails or helmet & short tails

Cavalry and artillery likewise change but usually only once or twice.

Within that there's a lot of special variances and unique units but broadly each nation needs 2-3 periods. Sadly the dates don't match up conveniently but mostly you can limit the Napoleonic range to the last two and shift the first to the Revolutionary War range - not perfect but will do
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Leman
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« Reply #20 on: 20 August 2019, 08:24:56 PM »

Hi, I would like to know if there are going to be novelties for the Napoleonic period. Especially to complete the range Waterloo but also for the French, Imperial Guard for example. Thank you very much.  Wink
How about a wet Irish lad running around waving his arms in the air shouting, Why, why? Im afraid I have always found it a particularly naff film which again put me off Napoleonics as a teenage wargamer.
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The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!
Chad
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« Reply #21 on: 20 August 2019, 09:07:07 PM »

It should be done by period if it is going to be expanded at all. 1805-1807 for example would cover French, Austrian, Russian and Prussian with few if any variations in uniform needed.
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Zippee
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« Reply #22 on: 21 August 2019, 09:52:20 AM »

How about a wet Irish lad running around waving his arms in the air shouting, Why, why? Im afraid I have always found it a particularly naff film which again put me off Napoleonics as a teenage wargamer.

Indeed the problem of slapping contemporary morality into period films [any genre] these bits mak me cringe too.
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Zippee
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« Reply #23 on: 21 August 2019, 10:18:49 AM »

It should be done by period if it is going to be expanded at all. 1805-1807 for example would cover French, Austrian, Russian and Prussian with few if any variations in uniform needed.

Except whilst that works well as a campaign divider all three of those nations are in the midst of evolving uniforms - the French change dramatically part way through, the others continue to slowly change. And even if we can ignore some of the colour variations for a figure range, changes in hats we can't. And that means if you elect to produce a French 1805-07 range you are essentially choosing an 1805 range or an 1806-07 range. For Austria you choose a 1798 range or an 1806 range, etc. And then we can start arguing about the difference between uniform decree dates and uniform supply dates.

Much though I love my 1805 French in bicorn (and I have a sizeable 6mm army) I have to accept that they are not really a commercial option. Better to produce 1806 shako French that will essentially serve as is through to 1812 becuase they'll selve in droves - that's essentially the existing 1809 range and it is the sensible commercial choice. That means that bicorn wearing French get relegated to the 1792-1804 Revolutionary War range, the style won't be quite right for 1805 but close enough if you pick the neater regular options that shoule be available alongside the rag-tag options. And bardin regulation French to 1813-15 which will be commercially competative because (for reasons I find inexplicable) those late campaigns are very popular.

The same for Russia (pre and post 1810), Austria (pre and post 1806) and Prussia (per and post 1808), we need both options to cover the campaigns of 1805-15. We've made a great start with the "1809" range as it stands - an Austrian German fusilier in shako and Hungarian fusilier in helmet would see Austria complete for 1805-15. The next commercial option has to be the additions necessary to plump out the Peninsular options (not my cup of tea but you can't ignore its popularity) which also arounds out the core French 1806-12 options. We have yet to see what the Imperial Guard range looks like, I understand its sitting in the wings awaiting deployment but assuming its reasonably comprehensive all we're left scrabbling for afterward would be Russians (pre and post 1810), pre 1808 Prussians and post 1813 French.
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Chad
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« Reply #24 on: 21 August 2019, 12:08:47 PM »

Zippee

I understand the commercial aspects, but would comment as follows on the hats issue:

French - Whilst the shako was authoprised in 1806, I would question if the army actually received them for the 1806-7 campaign. Bearing in mind that the army was based in Germany after the 1805 campaign and did not return to France, it is entirely possible that to issue the new shako to the army was impractical.

Austrian - My understanding is that the shako was initially only issued to a number of Hungarian regiments in 1807 and was not in general issue until 1808. On that basis the raupenhelm for 1805 is OK and indeed is actually in the current 1809 range.

Prussia - This is the biggest problem. Just as the 1806 uniform is distinctly different to the 1808 version, it is also completely different from that of the Revolutionary War.

Russia - The February 1805 shako does not change in any significant detail until 1809 and as such should be valid for 1805-1807.

In 10mm, I have to admit to be unconcerned about minor changes in the general uniform.

Chad
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Westmarcher
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« Reply #25 on: 21 August 2019, 01:58:50 PM »

... And bardin regulation French to 1813-15 which will be commercially competative because (for reasons I find inexplicable) those late campaigns are very popular ....


Particularly 1813-14 which is only two years out of 12 years of wars. At a guess (on 1813-14);
- there were no major changes to the uniforms of the other major powers?
- the greater flexibility of pitting combinations of these powers against the French in any one battle?
- a more equal chance of either side winning?
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I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
Chad
Colonel
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« Reply #26 on: 21 August 2019, 03:55:27 PM »

However, as I pointed out previously the absence of Prussian Reserve Units is an obstacle.
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John Cook
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« Reply #27 on: 22 August 2019, 03:38:56 PM »

However, as I pointed out previously the absence of Prussian Reserve Units is an obstacle.

I think you can source surrogates for every kind of Prussian Reserve Infantry from the 1815 range.  The Hanoverian range, I now see, has infantry in caps.   The main impediment, for me anyway, is lack of French line infantry or Young Guard in habit-veste. 
« Last Edit: 22 August 2019, 03:51:11 PM by John Cook » Logged
John Cook
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« Reply #28 on: 22 August 2019, 04:22:38 PM »

.Much though I love my 1805 French in bicorn (and I have a sizeable 6mm army) I have to accept that they are not really a commercial option. Better to produce 1806 shako French that will essentially serve as is through to 1812 becuase they'll selve in droves - that's essentially the existing 1809 range and it is the sensible commercial choice....

Zippee, There would only be a point in producing Napoleonic French infantry in bicornes if there was an Austerlitz/Jena range of Russians and Prussians.  Im not sure that you are right about viability though - Magister Millitums range would suggest otherwise..  French line infantry were still in bicornes exclusively at Jena and Auerstedt. 

I would certainly invest in an 1806 range but Id rather see the Peninsula done first. 

The Austrians are, it seems to me, covered for the entire period by the 1809 range. 
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Zippee
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« Reply #29 on: 22 August 2019, 08:59:19 PM »

Zippee, There would only be a point in producing Napoleonic French infantry in bicornes if there was an Austerlitz/Jena range of Russians and Prussians.  Im not sure that you are right about viability though - Magister Millitums range would suggest otherwise..  French line infantry were still in bicornes exclusively at Jena and Auerstedt. 

I would certainly invest in an 1806 range but Id rather see the Peninsula done first. 

The Austrians are, it seems to me, covered for the entire period by the 1809 range. 


Indeed you need the complimentary opponents for any range.

Compared to 1807/12 and 1813/15 French, 1805/06 are the least commercial French was all I was really saying. In the same way that 1806 Prussian are less commercial than 1808/15 or 1805/10 Russian are less commecial than 1811/15. And that has a compound effect because as we said you need the complimentary opponents.

Peninsular next makes the most sense (hopefully alongside the IG)

Almost we need the Austrian/German in shako and Austrian/HHungarian in helmet - that would cover us from Marengo through 1815. Figure wise Austrians are the easiest - the stingy commisariat does us a fvaour in that  Cheesy
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