late Saxons and Normans

Started by Sunray, 16 August 2018, 05:36:10 PM

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Sunray

All you arselings will be joyed to learn that Uhtred will ride back onto our screens this autumn, in a new series of The Last Kingdom.  :)

I enjoyed the fictional plot and weave around historical figures like Alfred. Also the detail in the battle tactics like the shield wall.

Now the action is late 9th Century. Is there a rule set for this footslogging Dane v Saxon shield war era, but also covers  later Saxon armies  up to the mid 11th Century  arrival of the Normans and 1066 ?


petercooman

Ancient and medieval warfare by Neil Thomas, that's what i got recently.

Steve J

Well you have Hail Caesar with the appropriate supplement, SAGA or possibly Dux Britanniarum, but not sure how late the latter goes to be honest. You could tweak Dux Bellorum as well. Hope this helps? I think a lot depends upon what level you want to replicate.

Oh and thanks for the 'heads up' on the return of Uhtred :)

Leman

There's also To the Strongest if you like a grid game or Basic Impetus 2 if not (they both use the bigger base approach which looks the business with shield walls). All the standard ancient rule sets deal with the period and you could get away with Dux Bellorum (the final army list is for Sea Raiders). Dux Britanniarum is not really suitable for vikings. Saga would work well, especially if you mounted a group of 10mm figures on a base (eg 3 or 4) and then counted the base as a single 28mm figure.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

Steve J

Forgot to mention Lion Rampant would work well for a SAGA style skirmish game.

Raider4

Dark Age Infantry Slog - has the benefit of being free. I like the combat resolution (but that might not work for solo play . . . ).

Daniel Mersey's Dux Bellorum.

Also agree that Lion Rampant would work well. There's even an 'official' variant for it - http://merseybooks.blogspot.com/2016/01/landwasters-and-raven-feeders-official.html - which basically consists of renaming a few things to a more 'dark age' name.

Cheers, M.
--

Sunray

Many thanks to all Forum friends for this honest and very comprehensive survey of dark age rules.  If I ever get out of the jungle of 1960s-70s African bush wars this is were I will go.   :)

I never cease to be amazed at how popular culture- a book, film, TV series - can trigger interest in a period.

My one concern about our new  Korea figures, is that despite the interesting and unique range of international arms and nations, it has long ceased to be a topic for contemporary film portrayal.   This explains the repertoire of black & white movies (Pork Chop Hill etc) from the 1950s.  The only qualification is the niche genre of South Korean war flicks- many of which were consulted as Phil and I researched the figure range. The Brotherhood is recommended.

Yes, I grew up on MASH, but like all comedy set in war, the 4077 is one step removed from the front line (a bit like Dad's Army). 
 


Duke Speedy of Leighton

You need to borrow my Bluestone 42 DVDs, definitely frontline humour!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Wulf

Quote from: mad lemmey on 19 August 2018, 12:43:10 PM
You need to borrow my Bluestone 42 DVDs, definitely frontline humour!
I can never remember the name of that bloody program, thanks!  :-*

Sunray

Quote from: mad lemmey on 19 August 2018, 12:43:10 PM
You need to borrow my Bluestone 42 DVDs, definitely frontline humour!

Again I would suggest with the Top Cats,  their war is with the IEDs.  No less dangerous than fighting a human enemy, and a lot of guts required (my best man was a Felix).

And yes, their black wit is legendary.  But, the enemy is the device, just as in MASH the enemy is the horrific wounds in the OR.

Raider4

Quote from: Sunray on 16 August 2018, 05:36:10 PM
All you arselings will be joyed to learn that Uhtred will ride back onto our screens this autumn, in a new series of The Last Kingdom.  :)

And for those who can receive the 5Spike channel, they are starting to show Vikings - season 1, I believe - on Mondays at 22:00.

More 'dark ages' fun and games.

Cheers, M.
--

steve_holmes_11

The Three sets I've looked at for "Shieldwall warfare" are

Dux Bellorum (Daniel Mersey - Osprey).

Rather good and the most flexible across the centuries in my opinion.
Clearly splits the infantry between warband and shieldwall types as appropriate to the earlier end of the era.
Also provides good support for mounted troops.

Provides a range of lists form Late Roman onward.
It stops short of Viking Raids and Norman Conquest.
Enterprising gamers can "wrap around" early period mechanisms (Sea Raider lists, and Late Roman troop types respectively) to model these armies.

Dux Brittaniorum (TooFatLardies) - Rather larger units, interesting lightweight campaign system.

Focus on the Saxon incursions against the post Roman British.
Somewhat larger armies, and a range of familiar lardy mechanisms.
The Campaign system (Your next army depends on your fortune in previous battles) will probably divide opinion.
I found it a fascinating look into the objectives of defenders and raiders at the dawn of the dark ages.

As with the other Dux (above) mechanisms could be wrapped to model Norse / Danish raiders hitting the Saxon kingdoms.

Saga Studio Tomahawk

Now in a second edition, covers armies from classic shieldwall dark age through to crusades.
Has a huge following, and seems to be a great game.
The "Battleboard" mechanism distinguishes Saga form the other games.

I'm in a small minority who don't like it as it seems to me to have little in common with shieldwall warfare.
If you're less precious about your reading of history, there's an excellent and well supported game here for you.


Finally, should you wish to mash two shieldwalls against each other:
Daniel Mersey's* Battle Ravens has just launched a kickstarter.
This seem to boil shieldwall combat down to its essentials with no frills.
Take a look at the kickstarter page which explains the approach.
Gridded board, flats and simple combat may deter some grognards.

* Same guy who wrote Dux Bellorum.