Italian L6/40

Started by Orcs, 06 July 2018, 01:54:28 AM

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Orcs

I am trying to find out how common this Italian L6/40 was in North Africa .  I am finding several contradictory accounts. Some saying they were only used on the eastern front .  Some say they were used late 1942  in North Africa by the Ariete division. But the Orbats I can find for El Alamein  show the Ariete Division only feilding the  47/32 Semovente based on them.

  Rapid fire List do not show them, and they are not mentioned in Donald Featherstones "Tank Battles in Miniature- the western desert."  And he served there.  BKC lists show them, and some websites say they were used.

Do any of my learned colleagues on this forum know for sure.

P.S The Warlord website says "The Fiat L6/40 was a light tank used by the Italian army from 1940 and was the main tank employed by the Italian forces fighting in the North African campaign as well as on the Eastern Front alongside the L6/40-based Semovente 47/32 self-propelled gun." - So I think I will ignore that.
The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

I'll have to check - but - I suspect that officially the L6 represented about a 1/4 of the Italian tanks  in their organisation. From memory the regular infantry divisions had 1 company, and like the later US btns a 4th light company. How common that would be in N Africa I dont know. They were certainly there though.

IanS
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Ithoriel

www.tanks-encyclopedia.com says

"The L6/40 in action

Although efficient as a scout tank and deployed in cavalry and reconnaissance units, the L6/40 was also quickly put in regular units, due to the shortages of medium tanks the Italian army experienced by 1941. The L6/40 saw its baptism of fire in the Balkans (April-May), and formed a large part of available Italian armor during Operation Barbarossa. By the beginning of 1943, the survivors or the Russian Stalingrad offensive retreated across the Ukrainian steppes. In North Africa, some L6/40s took part in operations through the summer to the fall of 1942, with the Ariete division and Bersagliers independent companies. They soldiered in Tunisia, Sicily and Italy. After November 1943, the Germans took over all existing vehicles and the production of the final version. They saw service with the Wehrmacht and Italian forces of Salo, but also in France, Albania and Greece in 1944."

wikipedia says

"Combat use

L6/40 light tanks were used by the Italians in the Balkans Campaign, in the war against the Soviet Union, in the latter stages of the North African campaign, and in the defence of Sicily and Italy.

The L6/40 was the main tank employed by the Italian forces fighting on the Eastern Front. The L6 fought alongside the L6/40-based Semovente 47/32 self-propelled gun.

Although a good light tank for its size and an improvement over the tankettes that were common within the Italian army, it was already obsolete by the time of its introduction.[1] The low silhouette of the vehicle (somewhat taller than the average man) made it useful for reconnaissance, and its armament was effective against any light vehicles it might encounter. However, due to a lack of a suitable medium tank, it was often employed in a combat role, for which it was unsuited.

The L6 was also used by the German Army[citation needed] and the Croat UstaĊĦe militia.

IMAGE :An L6/40 with German markings passes German infantrymen in occupied Albania, September 1943

The L6/40 was used postwar by the Italian militia until it was phased out during the early 1950s."
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

Orcs

Quote from: Ithoriel on 06 July 2018, 09:36:50 AM
www.tanks-encyclopedia.com says

"The L6/40 in action

In North Africa, some L6/40s took part in operations through the summer to the fall of 1942, with the Ariete division and Bersagliers independent companies. They soldiered in Tunisia, Sicily and Italy.
wikipedia says

"Combat use

L6/40 light tanks were used by the Italians in the Balkans Campaign, in the war against the Soviet Union, in the latter stages of the North African campaign, and in the defence of Sicily and Italy.


These were tow of  my two sources that said it was used, yet there is no mention of it in the Ariete division order of battle for El Alamein - Oct- Nov 1942
The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. - Robert Louis Stevenson

Ithoriel

I have notes that say 3rd Tank Group Lancieri di Novara used Fiat L6/40 tanks at El Alamein but since it's just personal notes I don't have a reference, sorry.

This purports to be an "Italian Fiat-Ansaldo L6/40 knocked out in North Africa - 1942"

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

Orcs

Quote from: Ithoriel on 06 July 2018, 12:26:52 PM
This purports to be an "Italian Fiat-Ansaldo L6/40 knocked out in North Africa - 1942"



Certainly is an L6/40 and it does look like North Africa. Thanks
The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. - Robert Louis Stevenson

fsn

Italian Light Tanks 1919-45 (Cappellano and Battistelli) says:

Cavalry regiments turned to armoured recce groups (RECo) in early 42.
Establishment HQ Sqn, 1st gruppo Esplorante corazzzato (armd car sqn, 2 x L6/40 sqn 2nd GEC (L40 SPG, AA, M/c/ sqn)

18 RECo Bersaglieri 1st Feb 1942. VIII  bttn in Trieste Div, XXII to Centauro div both in North Africa.
15 RECo Feb 42 attached the Centauro div, North Africa in Sept 1942 and "lost it's en route and was left with its two L6/40 sqn that fought in Tunisia until May 43"
8 RECo July 42 had no L6/40 tanks.


III Gruppo Corazzato of Nizza Cavalleria used L6/40 attached to Ariete fought at El Alamein and Tunisia
III Gruppo squadroni Lanceieri di Novara attached to Littorio Sept 42 fought at El Alamein and Tunisia


Only 42 L6/40 tanks in North Africa by 19 Oct (42?)
Total of 77 L6/40 employed up to May 43


Hope that's helpful.
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fsn

06 July 2018, 09:39:04 PM #7 Last Edit: 06 July 2018, 09:54:43 PM by fsn
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in all about 500 were produced. the first formation to use the tank in quantity was the 3rd group of the Lancieri di Novara regt sent to North Africa as the armoured group of Littorio in the spring of 1942.



Actually, most photos of L6's seem to have them in German or Russian hands.
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

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Orcs

Thanks Nobby,  I only do north Africa up to end of 1942 so no real reason for me to buy any

Orcs
The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. - Robert Louis Stevenson

Dr Dave

I'm pondering an Italian shower to face my Brits. I think the micro mark lists have only up to 1 platoon of them in a recce role.

Get ready for lots of M13/40s...  :(

fsn

Quote from: Orcs on 06 July 2018, 11:42:44 PM
Thanks Nobby,  I only do north Africa up to end of 1942 so no real reason for me to buy any
OK, there's no need, but you know Trieste and Centauro had them from Feb 42, so there's no reason not to.  :D
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
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2023 - the year of Gerald:
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