Panzer III query

[Wulf]

I'm looking for a Pz III with the short 5cm gun & no extra armour - is that GRV7 Panzer III J ? The early J models had the short 5cm, but I think they had the armour. Do any of the codes represent the short 5cm with no added armour?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Real world designations would be F or G, and a few E's. H onward were up-armoured. Early J's had the short 50's, but most have the L60.

IanS

[Dr Dave]

When you say extra armour do you mean frontal, or the shurzen skirts?

Surely the extra frontal armour from a F to a J is invisible in 10mm?

[Wulf]

When you say extra armour do you mean frontal, or the shurzen skirts?

Surely the extra frontal armour from a F to a J is invisible in 10mm?

I mean the spaced armour added to the turret & hull front - it is visible, it's on the ones I already have. It looks like an extra 'box' added to the front, maybe 6" to a foot thick (the box that is, not the actual armour...) As IanS says, it SHOULD be on a J, but as there's no PD code for an earlier Pz III with a 5cm than the J, I thought I'd ask before going elsewhere.

[Ithoriel]

Pictures of the various PZII models here, if that helps

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzer_III.php

[Steve J]

I have a book on Panzers in Tunisia which shows lots of them with the extra gun mantlet armour removed. IIRC this was due to weight issues, but would have to check when I get home.

[Wulf]

But can anyone say for sure about the PD minis? I already have up-armoured versions, I want something visually distinct from them.

[Dr Dave]

From memory only the M (50mm L60) and the N (75mm L24) carry the Shurzen skirts you describe on your model. Hence, whatever it is, it shouldn't be a J - it's either GRV10 (M) or 11(N).

If I was looking for a PzIII, short 50mm and no skirts (and I've not seen the models) I'd go for GRV7.

What part of WW2 are you wanting it for?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Dave - the extra amour was welded on to the existing hull, and left a distinct lip - which is visible on the models I've got. Frankly don't worry about it for gaming purposes unless you are using a mix of types...

[Leon]

Ours is the long 50mm with no skirts, so not quite what you're looking for.  You could chop the barrel down?

[Wulf]

Ours is the long 50mm with no skirts, so not quite what you're looking for.  You could chop the barrel down?

It's not the skirt armour I mean, it's the additional armour added to the hull front plate & mantlet. But if it's got the long 50, it'll have the armour (and in fact it's probably the ones I have already).

[Wulf]

What part of WW2 are you wanting it for?

Barbarossa, '41-'42. I already have Pz III with long 5cm and additional mantlet armour, probably J or L types.

Does anyone have any pics of PD GRV7?

[Dr Dave]

Dave - the extra amour was welded on to the existing hull, and left a distinct lip - which is visible on the models I've got. Frankly don't worry about it for gaming purposes unless you are using a mix of types...

It's visible in 10mm!?

My defence for not noticing it is that according the Jentz the British Army never clocked the difference either.

[Wulf]

It’s visible in 10mm!?

There's definite visible differences between the minis I have now and the early 5cm Panzer III pictures I have seen. It's not just the additional exytra thickness of armour that was added early on, these minis have the additional spaced armour on the front plate & mantlet.

Here's a handy web page. The ones I have are the upper type, the ones I want are the lower. After the years since purchase, I can't say which mini code the ones I have are, or even be certain they're PD.

http://panzeriiilordofblitzkreig.blogspot.com/2015/09/panzer-iii-colours-4.html