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Author Topic: Post war/modern 1/144 aircraft  (Read 608 times)
Sunray
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« on: 12 June 2018, 07:32:14 PM »

Just picked up an F Toys T34 Mentor (light aircraft NOT a tank) on ebay. The Argies had them as COIN and used them in the Falklands
I also see Miniwing BAC Strikemaster in 1/144, out soon.
Post war and early modern aircraft getting more common.  Smiley
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #1 on: 12 June 2018, 08:06:11 PM »

I know the Mentors (2?) were ON the Falklands, but I’m not so sure they got to do much, if anything at all.

What we need is a GR3 Harrier and a Pucara.
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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,
And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”
Sunray
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« Reply #2 on: 12 June 2018, 09:11:07 PM »

I know the Mentors (2?) were ON the Falklands, but I’m not so sure they got to do much, if anything at all.

What we need is a GR3 Harrier and a Pucara.

There was a flight of four, and yes, with long endurance they were a nuisance to helicopters ! They buzzed around but stayed away from our AAA.  They were intercepted by 801 NAS whilst on CAP 01 May, and the Harriers found them hard to hit because of their slow air speed  Shocked Lt Cr Ward had to viff to get a line of cannon on one, but has fuel was low he had to abort.

They were torched in the Pebble Island Raid (15 May?) and the burnt out airframes were still there when I did my tour. Smiley   They might still even be there?
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #3 on: 13 June 2018, 11:03:46 AM »

Thanks Sunray. Not very fair - a Sea Harrier vs a Mentor!  Shocked
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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,
And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”
Wulf
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« Reply #4 on: 13 June 2018, 01:37:49 PM »

Anyone else read the old Science Fiction story "Hawk among the sparrows"? It's about a high-tech jet fighter sent back in time to WWI, and the problems it had actually achieving anything when all the enemies were so small, so slow, and almost radar-invisible. Best weapon it had was the sonic boom shockwave... sadly not an option open to harriers...

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Sunray
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« Reply #5 on: 14 June 2018, 12:10:50 AM »

All is fair when you are at war. The T34 were a real and active threat to the Task Forces' depleted helicopter force. Youmping is fine, but Wilson's phone call and airlift was a game changer.  Would he have risked that,  if the T34s were still in operation?

The fact that the SAS gave them the same priority as the Pucara tells you how nervous they made the helicopter jockeys !

I also recall in Cold War Germany, large stocks of  Alpha jet trainers  targeted against WP helicopters.

Occasionally in war the low tech has advantages.  In WW2 the stringbag Fairey Swordfish were launched against the mighty Bismarck.

If truth be told, they only survived because their airspeed was so slow, the sights on the Bismarck's AAA were miscalculating  the target projection and point of aim !

Yes, T34 tries to intercept troop carrying chopper - good scenario for a Bush war. Smiley Smiley
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pierre the shy
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« Reply #6 on: 14 June 2018, 01:45:44 AM »

I can remember reading a "alternative history" novel about the Falklands where the Argentinian airforce take a low tech approach and equip entirely with lots of late model Vought Corsair prop driven fighter bombers rather than jets. When the British fleet arrives off the islands the Corsairs stage a massive attack totally overwhelming the Sea Harrier CAP. The last message form the Harrier leader is something like "engaging now....God save the Queen"

hmmmm.....never finished reading that book......
« Last Edit: 14 June 2018, 03:32:18 AM by pierre the shy » Logged

"Bompsadaisy.......its enough to make you weep"
Dr Dave
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« Reply #7 on: 14 June 2018, 09:59:52 PM »

How did the F4’s get to the Falklands - surely they wouldn’t have the range to fly the 500+ miles there from the mainland? The one bonus of a low tech Argentine military is that they have no Exocet?
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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,
And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”
mad lemmey
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« Reply #8 on: 14 June 2018, 10:08:09 PM »

In flight refuelling and drop tanks!
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Chekov's Gun, Occam's Razor, and Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle walk into a bar. You won't believe what happens next!

2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner 😎
pierre the shy
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« Reply #9 on: 15 June 2018, 09:11:16 AM »

How did the F4’s get to the Falklands - surely they wouldn’t have the range to fly the 500+ miles there from the mainland? The one bonus of a low tech Argentine military is that they have no Exocet?

The F4U was originally a carrier based fighter designed to operate in the broad reaches of the Pacific so it was somewhat renowned for its long range. The late model F4U-4 had a range of just over 1000+ miles on internal tanks, further with drop tanks  Nerd  

So they probably would have the legs to get there.

Its not the silliest alternative history I have read. That title would have to go to an alternative "cold war" history book that I picked up for $1 at a local bookfair by an otherwise respectable historian. He wrote up a supposedly "humourous" history of a fictional Warsaw Pact invasion of the West that was defeated by NATO long range MRLS artillery firing special ammunition that dispensed containers of vodka that parachuted among the Warpac forces. So eager are the recipients for this "manna from on high" that any thoughts of advancing to the Rhine are quickly abandoned and they don't pass go or collect $200  Huh? Shocked

Well to me alternative fiction still has to be somewhat beleiveible rather than downright silly  Lips Sealed
« Last Edit: 15 June 2018, 09:13:31 AM by pierre the shy » Logged

"Bompsadaisy.......its enough to make you weep"
Dr Dave
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« Reply #10 on: 15 June 2018, 02:03:35 PM »

In flight refuelling and drop tanks!

In flight refuelling? Not on a Corsair I fear.

Drop tanks? So no real payload then? No Exocet or bombs?

As for range, there are two figures quoted, the max range which is 1000+ miles with drop tanks, so they could get there and then leave and maybe make it home on vapour. Then there’s the laden operational combat range which allows for payload which is usually quoted as around the 300 mile figure.

Obviously they could fly from their carrier the “25th May” assuming the RN don’t sink it torpedo or Exocet.

Alternative histories are usually reliant of suspending belief and, all too often, practical realities.
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“In war possession of ground is nine tenths of the law,
And the infantry are the bailiff’s men”
Sunray
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Posts: 1776


« Reply #11 on: 15 June 2018, 03:08:45 PM »

In flight refuelling? Not on a Corsair I fear.

Drop tanks? So no real payload then? No Exocet or bombs?

As for range, there are two figures quoted, the max range which is 1000+ miles with drop tanks, so they could get there and then leave and maybe make it home on vapour. Then there’s the laden operational combat range which allows for payload which is usually quoted as around the 300 mile figure.

Obviously they could fly from their carrier the “25th May” assuming the RN don’t sink it torpedo or Exocet.

Alternative histories are usually reliant of suspending belief and, all too often, practical realities.


Agree with most of what you say Dave.  The qualification to the thesis would be the two unsinkable aircraft carriers that were East and West Falklands - these aircraft can and did operate out of hasty airfields .  So it comes down to the range to the Task Force. ....and back
And the AAA that the Task Force would throw up.    And the NAS quickly learnt on the job to task a Harrier against prop aircraft - the ability to Viff means you don't risk a stall. 
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