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Author Topic: British Cruiser tank speeds  (Read 696 times)
Dr Dave
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« on: 06 June 2018, 05:50:21 PM »

I’ve been looking over the British Cruiser tanks – A9 up to Crusader in BKCII.

The real life x-country speeds and move distances in the rules are:
A9 – 15 mph; 20 cm
A10 – 9; 15
A13 – 14; 30
Crusader – 15; 30


The A10 was very slow, but has anyone else noticed that the A9 seems to be a bit too slow? If anything it should be 25, probably 30 like the others.

Any thoughts?  :-
« Last Edit: 06 June 2018, 05:52:48 PM by Dr Dave » Logged
fred.
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« Reply #1 on: 06 June 2018, 09:00:46 PM »

I think you have a point.

In the time honoured fashion of comparing rules - in Battlegroup these tanks have the following speeds

A9  -  8"
A10  -  5"
A13  -  9"
Crusader  - 9"

So I'd agree that A9 should be 25 or 30.
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ianrs54
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« Reply #2 on: 07 June 2018, 07:58:15 AM »

The A10 was supposed to be an infantry tank, although used as a cruiser, hence the lower speed. However there seems to have been no CS version of the A9 so A10's were used in that role. Similar with the Valentine, no CS tanks, so Matilda II CS were used. Finally beware of British tank speeds. Lots were governed down, a Churchill III or IV could easily do 25mph, and could keep up with Shermans if the fitters worked on the engine.

IanS
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toxicpixie
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« Reply #3 on: 07 June 2018, 03:22:20 PM »

That's one of the issues that led to the awful rep of the Crusader for reliability, isn't it? They realised in testing that the engine needed to be governed as running at speed screwed the tank, so they fitted governors, and then shortly after arrival in Egypt the workshops or crews would whip them out or disable them, gaining considerable speed but wrecking the tank really quickly...
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #4 on: 07 June 2018, 04:03:08 PM »

There was an A9 CS, but it was rare compared to the A10 CS, certainly in North Africa. There was definitely no A13 CS. But we digress.

The A9 does seem to be underrated for speed - Even Firefly gives it the same speed as the A13 mk2.
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Steve J
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« Reply #5 on: 07 June 2018, 06:43:49 PM »

From Chamberlain & Ellis'  British & American Tanks of WWII:

A9
Engine - AEC Type A179
Max Speed - 25mph
Max Cross-Country Speed - 15mph (approx)
Suspension Type - Triple wheel bogies on springs with Newton hydraulic shock absorbers (slow motion type)

A10
Engine - AEC Type A179
Max Speed - 16mph
Max Cross-Country Speed - 8mph
Suspension Type - Triple wheel bogies on springs with Newton hydraulic shock absorbers (slow motion type)

A13
Engine - Nuffield Liberty V12
Max Speed - 30mph
Max Cross-Country Speed - 24mph (approx)
Suspension Type - Christie

A13 MkII
Engine - Nuffield Liberty V12
Max Speed - 30mph
Max Cross-Country Speed - 14mph (approx)
Suspension Type - Christie

Crusader
Engine - Nuffield Liberty V12
Max Speed - 27mph
Max Cross-Country Speed - 15mph (approx)
Suspension - Christie

Maybe the Christie suspension has been factored in to account for the move distances difference?
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fred.
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« Reply #6 on: 07 June 2018, 09:04:52 PM »

Looking at those numbers from chamberlain and ellis - the 24mph for the A13 seems suspect. Not sure there was that much difference between the A13 and A13 mk(II).

The A10 should be a lot slower than the A9, it was the same engine and suspension, but with a load more armour on top.

The A9 should be close to the A13 and Crusader speed wise.
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Steve J
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« Reply #7 on: 07 June 2018, 09:42:06 PM »

I think the 24mph is a typo, but that's what's in the book. The A10 was slowed down to make it more of an infantry tank, but the gearing was then changed to make it a bit faster, as mentioned earlier by Ian.

Personally I would use the stats that feel right for you.
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #8 on: 07 June 2018, 10:34:29 PM »

Personally I would use the stats that feel right for you.

Too true.

I am tempted to switch it to 30 for simplicity’s sake in a regt with all 3 types of early cruiser. At least that way I only need to remember 15 and 30!
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Orcs
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« Reply #9 on: 24 August 2018, 09:04:21 PM »

I would argue that its not the maximum speed the engine will drive the tank  that dictates how fast it will go, but the maximum speed that the crew can stand over that particular terrain , and how cautious they feel they need to be.


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toxicpixie
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« Reply #10 on: 24 August 2018, 09:42:09 PM »

I did read some Op Research somewhere that no matter the theoretical top speed and manoeuvre capacity of a tank, actual operational speed was generally around walking speed with occasional short bursts up to 10-15mph as the crews felt needed.

That was NWE not the desert mind, and lots of memoirs suggest most tank crews seemed to spend their time in the desert hooning around as fast the engines would go. Until they broke down.
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ianrs54
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« Reply #11 on: 25 August 2018, 08:31:51 AM »

The classic oddity is the Centurion, where its CC speed is about 20mph, and its road speed the same, all on gearing. One factor which tank crew consider important, but rules writers ignore is initial burst acceleration, say the time to get to 10 km/hr, as it's this which allows the tank to disappear, and is roughly the same for all the 60's MBT's. Outright speed and long time sustained speed are only important in a strategic move - such as the "Great Swan" out of the Normandy beach head.

IanS
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