ECW project using For King and Parliament

[paulr]

Seconded

[paulr]

Thanks for a very useful discussion all

I've shared my plans for sabot bases with Pierre the Shy and we seem to be in general agreement

One question from those with experience with sabots, I'm looking at a single rank of infantry command figures including flag on a 40x9mm base. Is 9mm going to be stable enough in a larger sabot?

[d_Guy]

Paul, I use single line narrow pieces for various unit add-one. Mine ar 1/2" width (so about 13mm) and of various lengths (increments of ~25mm). They work ok but I use magnetic move stands (sabots). I know you use magnetic vinyl on your bases (for transportation iirc) so that might be a solution.

[fred.]

If you are going with small 'modules' for the bases, then I'd suggest having a good sized edge around the sabot, to ensure everything stays in place, and there is something solid to pick the unit up by.

I did some 28mm figures with some 40x20mm bases with magnetic tape on them, and while they stayed OK on a sabot, without any edges, it was a bit wobbly when picking up the unit to move - but for those rules footprint mattered a lot, so I didn't want to make the sabot too big.

[paulr]

Thanks d_Guy and Fred

The plan is to have a 3-3.5mm edge on the front and sides of the sabot and a 10mm edge on the back with room for a label

Horse and Guns will be on be 40x40mm bases

The plan is to mount pike & shot on 40x30mm bases with 40x9mm bases with officers, drummers and flags so I can use a variation on the Polemos basing suggested by Leman
9mm rather than 10mm to allow some 'wiggle' room
Another option would be to base the pike & shot on 40x25mm and officers on 40x14mm, this might cramp the use of casualty figures on the pike & shot bases, or some variation in that range

...
2. In the Polemos ECW rules it is suggested that pike heavy units have the front of the pike figures right at the front of the base, pike light have the back  of the figures aligned with the back of the base and 1:1 have them in the middle, with the front of the pike figures aligned with the front of the two shot groups. In all cases there would be a gap between the front of the base and the front of the shot and the back of the base and the rear of the shot.  Apologies, but I don't have a picture to show this.

Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the casualty markers EC38-EC41

[mollinary]

The casualty markers: The foot fit onto 20mm circular mdf bases, and the horse ones onto 25mm circular bases. I have large numbers of mark disorder!  Re 'wriggle room', I think it is a great and necessary idea when using sabots. Rather than use it on the bases, I ask for its inclusion in the space left in the sabots. I normally allow 1mm for every base along that particular axis of the sabot. So if your sabot is to contain three bases, left to right, I would add an extra 3 mm in the sabot. If you have two bases front to back, then add 2mm. 

[paulr]

Thanks Mollinary

I'm looking to include a few casualties to add variety to the units and will use some small brown pom poms we already use for a number of different rule sets to show disorder

I'm leaving wiggle room in the sabots and plan to standardised on a 130x55mm base with a 124x42mm hole for both battalia and Swedish horse. For horse there will be three 40x40mm bases, for foot three 40x30mm bases for pike and shot plus three 40x9mm bases for officers, drummers and standards. Perhaps I can get away with 40x10mm for the officers etc.

I'll be having a chat to that nice Mr Leon in due course

[paulr]

I've been doing some research on ECW battles looking for something that isn't too big but is significant and interesting to base this project on

I came across Cheriton 28^th March 1644 it pits The Earl of Forth and Lord Hopton against Sir William Waller with about 5,000 foot and 3,500 horse on each side.
Interestingly for an ECW battle there is a lot of terrain including at least 2 ridges, a large wood and a lot of enclosed fields; both sides used a lot of commanded shot.

Mollinary has been very helpful and I now have a couple of orders of battle and a possible order sorted out.
I will leave both Mollinary and Leon in peace until after Salute

The order is, of course, larger than I initially intended and that is without the sabot bases

[Bunny]

Baroque is one of the reasons we are looking at 12cm wide bases
They also will work work well with FK&P using a 15cm grid

I'm definitely tempted by the scope to add scenic displays on unit bases :-

I am following you on this with my ECW project, which is next on the list.

I will be using 120mm frontage large bases as per Baroque as I want to be able to use the armies with at least three sets of rules FK&P, Baroque and Pike and Shotte.

Also the large units will offer a good modeling scheme...

[paulr]

A couple of questions as I start refining my wish list

Did English musketeers in the ECW use rests?
If so would all musketeers in a battalia use them or is a mix more likely / possible

At the moment I'm looking at using a mix of
EC03 Musketeers cap (with rest)
EC14 Musketeers hat (with rest)
EC28 Musketeers advancing hat (which I'm told are actually Musketeers firing hat, no rest)
EC37 Musketeers, advancing (with no obvious rests)

Also by 1644 how many pikemen might still be wearing armour?

I'm looking to use a mix of
EC1 Armoured pike
EC2 Unarmoured pike

more to mix poses than to include armour, would 20% armoured be too many?

[Leman]

With regard to the use of rests, they were certainly used at the start of the ECW, but were gradually discarded as lighter muskets were adopted. It's pretty safe to assume that the NMA didn't use rests and probably not the Royalists either by 1644. I have only a few units with rests, and am shying away from pretty coloured regiments these days, as most of the evidence points to them only really being prevalent at Edge Hill. As the war progressed most of them seem to have gone for undyed wool, blues, reds and greens, probably in muted colours. Many units outside of the main armies, eg the Cornish, appear to have worn civilian dress with a field sign. As for armour, I'm not so clear on that, but I believe the first thing to be dropped was tassets,  probably followed by the back plate, and many troops later abandoned it altogether, including the helmet.

[paulr]

This project is definitely firming up

I've now calculated the number of figures I need, based on my current lists for Cheriton, in two different ways and came to exactly the same number of figures

The answer is, of course, more than originally intended

That jolly helpful Mr Leon is willing and able to produce the sabot bases I'm after

Now all we need to do is:

• play a test game with our regular group, to see if they enjoy the rules as much as Pierre the Shy and I do
• confirm my lists for Cheriton
• confirm Pierre the Shy's order for his forces from up north, we'll combine the orders to save on postage

[paulr]

Had a brief chat about this project with Pierre the Shy after our continuing Napoleonic game last night
Another pack of mounted Dragoons and 4 sabot bases added to my order

[paulr]

The magnetic vinyl I glue to the underside of my bases for security during storage and transport is 1-2mm thick

Using sabot bases for this project will mean that using this magnetic vinyl would make the bases too thick

What do people use...

[d_Guy]

The magnetic vinyl I glue to the underside of my bases for security during storage and transport is 1-2mm thick

Using sabot bases for this project will mean that using this magnetic vinyl would make the bases too thick

What do people use...

Hi Paul,
I didn't quite understand what you meant by "too thick". Do you mean when they are place in a sabot the are raised too much?
FWIW I use the magnetic vinyl on my bases as well but now use magnet receptive sheets (also ~1mm) to cover the MDF Leon custom cuts for me to make sabots. I don't frame the sabots since things seem to hold together pretty well using this construction.