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After a lot of requests over a lot of years, we've released some Aztecs!
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Author Topic: Mortars in BKC3  (Read 1194 times)
Shedman
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« on: 24 January 2018, 11:40:21 PM »

In BKC2 Mortars only hit on a 6 against AFVs regardless of whether it was sdirect or indirect fire

In BKC3 Mortars using direct fire hit AFVs using the standing 4+ / 5+ / 6 for open,light or heavy cover. If using indirect they hit on 6

Is that right?
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Steve J
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« Reply #1 on: 25 January 2018, 06:55:56 AM »

From what I can see from a quick look in the book, that's right.
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T13A
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« Reply #2 on: 25 January 2018, 09:04:16 AM »

Hi

Can't remember if this has been raised before, but I've always been uncomfortable that in BKC medium mortars, (i.e. 3"/81mm) are in effect direct fire weapons, when they are not. When firing medium mortars with BKC the target might as well be in a Napoleonic column for all the difference it would make, rather than the correct tactic which is to at least spread out to lesson the chance of a hit, even if not in a position to take cover. When under medium mortar fire in BKC there is absolutely no reason to spread your units out. And that goes for AFV targets as much as for infantry.

Just my rant for the day, sorry  Embarrassed

Cheers Paul
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fsn
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« Reply #3 on: 25 January 2018, 12:50:13 PM »

Haven't read the rules, so can't comment, but I have always liked the idea (which is probably old hat by now) of using 2 dice to decide where an indiirect fire bomb lands.

You nominate that you want the bomb to land at point x. Throw two dice of different colours. One controls the left/right, one controls the over/under. On the left/right a score is 2y to the left of the target, a score of 2 is 1y to the left of the target, 3 or 4 is on target, 5 is y to the right of the target and 6 is 2y to the right of the target. Similar score for the over/under die.

Y is determined by the weapon and may be larger or smaller to suit. A 4.4" howitzer may have y=3", a 2" mortar has y=1", bomb from a Typhoon has y=3", bomb from a B17 has y=27".

This means the bomb lands somewhere. If you're not careful, it could be on top of your chaps. For added refinement, use different values of y for left/right and over/under as line of sight is better jundged than range.

Simple and I have found, quite effective.

Also stops bunching. 
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #4 on: 25 January 2018, 01:01:46 PM »

BKC3 is alas riddled with errors, anomalies and oversights. Hence the re-write and the looming re-issuing of the rules. Iíd stick to BKC2 until 3 comes out again.

As for direct vs indirect, the overall effectiveness of them in the rules (BKC2 that is) seems to work.
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Orcs
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« Reply #5 on: 25 January 2018, 01:21:43 PM »

In BKCLL a stand represents a squad or a platoon spread out as per normal infantry tactics and the mortar is bombing the whole area they occupy.  so are not directly firing at individuals but the whole squad/platoon.

You have to hit infantry 2 or 3 times to get a knock out, and in real life they were very effective 
 
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T13A
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« Reply #6 on: 25 January 2018, 03:34:41 PM »

Hi

I remember back in the 1980's going to a British Army firepower demonstration (to showcase British weapons and equipment) at Lulworth in Dorset. They had a piece of terrain 50m x 50m taped off as a target area for admittedly 50mm mortars not 81mm mortars. If memory serves they fired off 20 smoke bombs and not a single one landed within the taped off area (it was a mite breezy). Now, if they had been HE bombs any one in the surrounding area and next to the actual target would not have been to happy.  Wink

Cheers Paul
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fred.
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« Reply #7 on: 25 January 2018, 07:32:17 PM »

In BKCLL a stand represents a squad or a platoon spread out as per normal infantry tactics and the mortar is bombing the whole area they occupy.  so are not directly firing at individuals but the whole squad/platoon. 
 

This

What we found in BKC was that grouping 3 mortars together was far to good. They could kill a unit with each shot, couple led with a good command value they could take out several stands in a turn.

This is an odd quirk of the rules as a single mortar stand seems about the right level of effectiveness but a group is far too good. And historically armies didnít go around grouping their medium mortars into grand batteries.
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Shedman
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« Reply #8 on: 25 January 2018, 07:52:38 PM »

This is an odd quirk of the rules ...

Too true

It's standard practice when we play CWC/FWC that players will target a single enemy base with as many bases as they can in order to kill it

Not having a rule for target priorities doesn't help

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Dr Dave
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« Reply #9 on: 25 January 2018, 08:02:17 PM »

This

What we found in BKC was that grouping 3 mortars together was far to good. They could kill a unit with each shot, couple led with a good command value they could take out several stands in a turn.

This is an odd quirk of the rules as a single mortar stand seems about the right level of effectiveness but a group is far too good. And historically armies didnít go around grouping their medium mortars into grand batteries.

An odd quirk of the rules? Massing an infantry brigades mortars and lobbing all their bombs at a single enemy platoon is also an odd quirk!  Grin A British inf bttn would have 12 infantry bases, 1-2 carriers, 1 engineer, 1 AT gun and only 1 mortar. Perhaps youíve got too many mortars?
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fred.
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« Reply #10 on: 25 January 2018, 09:08:53 PM »

I agree with you historical OrBat.

But the issue is that it is far too easy to have multiple mortars together under the same commander and they act in concert obliterating targets. Its easy to do in the game. But it didn't happen (or at least didn't happen in any degree in the real world).
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #11 on: 25 January 2018, 09:17:00 PM »

I agree with you historical OrBat. 

Weíve been playing BKC and CWC for years, but never points Games - only historical scenarios and orbats - and the multi-mortar attack has never occurred simply because it canít be performed with historical orbats. Itís as simple as that. The lists are just too odd for my money.
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