Battle of Britain book needed.

Started by Hwiccee, 15 December 2017, 09:47:16 AM

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Hwiccee

Hi all,


I am looking for a book on the Battle of Britain 1940. Specifically one that has details on how the two sides assessed, wrongly, the numerical strengths of the other side. This is mentioned in a documentary on the campaign by James Holland and so I got the book about the battle by the same guy, but it does not appear to be in that.

The documentary claimed that both sides assumed that the other sides fighter squadrons were the same size as their own. But British squadrons were apparently 20 strong at full strength while German were 12. I am looking for a book covering this - are recommendations?

Norm

From the back of my mind, I recall a book called Battle of Britain by Patrick Bishop. All I can remember is that I browsed it in a bookshop several years ago and with my wargamer head on, thought it had a lot of the necessary data that would be needed to do a game. I can't be exact as to what info was given, but it may be worth having the library get you a copy before you plonk any cash down.

T13A

Hi

Not sure if it will answer your specific question but I would highly recommend 'The Most Dangerous Enemy', by Stephen Bungay.

Cheers Paul
T13A Out!

Sunray

Nothing wrong with any of the above recommendations.  I had to do a lecture on the topic in 2010/11 academic year and found Richard Overy
Battle of Britain  : Myth and Reality (Penguin, 2010) nails the info you want.   He also identified that it when bombing the RAF stations it was not the destruction of runway (many were still airfields) or aircraft that was doing the damage, it was the fact that Sector Controls were located on the same Air Ministry property.  Without S/C to guide them the Spits and Hurricanes  couldn't find the bandits.


My only beef with Overy is that he doesn't keep to any chronological order of events, but if you have an existing grasp of the battle, this won't be an issue.  :)   

Shutuphippie

15 December 2017, 07:55:16 PM #4 Last Edit: 15 December 2017, 07:57:47 PM by Shutuphippie
Great shout by T13A

Most Dangerous Enemy is an absolute awesome book and the best I have read on the battle by a considerable distance.

It really demonstrates how despite cultural stereotypes it's was the British who were the professionals and had prepared to fight the battle for years whilst the Germans were more amateurish and unprepared.

To quote Bungay

'their mood was probably not unlike that of the French noblemen who gathered in their splendour outside Agincourt and looked across the field to a tired and bedraggled array of English archers sheltered behind a line of pointed sticks which they had stuck in the ground in front of them as a forlorn and final hope that it would protect them from destruction.
Goerings' young eagles little suspected they were about to impale themselves on the most fearsome air defence system in the world'
2018 Painting Competition - Winner!

Westmarcher

The only book I have on the Battle of Britain is specific to one day. It's The Hardest Day, 18th August 1940 by Alfred Price. A terrific read which I thoroughly recommend - so much so that over the years I've read it 3 or 4 times! In the appendices, this gives the actual strengths and locations of all RAF squadrons and German Gruppe, differentiating between serviceable and unserviceable aircraft. It also gives losses including pilot names, the circumstances of each aircraft's demise and who was credited with the victory. On the subject of Luftwaffe organisation, Price says that at this stage of the war, each Gruppe had a nominal strength of 3 Staffeln (equivalent to a squadron?), each of nine aircraft plus a staff unit of three, making a total of thirty. Three Gruppen, plus a staff of four aircraft, made a Geschwader with a nominal strength of 94 aircraft.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Hwiccee

Thanks all for what looks like some good suggestions. I will follow them up and I have already found most are available via my local library.

Sunray: The exception is your suggestion which I suspect will be a good source. Many years ago I did similar to you but with Overy's book on the Bomber Campaign. This will involve a short trip but I think worth it.


Thank all.

Westmarcher

Quote from: Westmarcher on 15 December 2017, 08:02:05 PM
The only book I have on the Battle of Britain is specific to one day. It's The Hardest Day, 18th August 1940 by Alfred Price. A terrific read which I thoroughly recommend - so much so that over the years I've read it 3 or 4 times! In the appendices, this gives the actual strengths and locations of all RAF squadrons and German Gruppe, differentiating between serviceable and unserviceable aircraft. It also gives losses including pilot names, the circumstances of each aircraft's demise and who was credited with the victory. On the subject of Luftwaffe organisation, Price says that at this stage of the war, each Gruppe had a nominal strength of 3 Staffeln (equivalent to a squadron?), each of nine aircraft plus a staff unit of three, making a total of thirty. Three Gruppen, plus a staff of four aircraft, made a Geschwader with a nominal strength of 94 aircraft.

It appears that a correction is in order regarding the above. With my interest in the Battle of Britain re-kindled by this topic, I revisited the above book and, whilst browsing the Orders of Battle, came across data that was at odds with the Gruppe organisation of 30 aircraft described above (which was quoted from the book).   
No doubt WW2 air combat enthusiasts will already have raised an eyebrow at this but for occasional enthusiasts with a shallow knowledge of the subject like myself, a Staffel strength of 12 (and not 9) aircraft appears to be more plausible given the following returns for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gruppen of Fighter Geschwader 27.

I Gruppe     39 serviceable aircraft
II Gruppe    27 serviceable aircraft (+12 unservicable)
III Gruppe   32 serviceable aircraft (+7 unservicable)

Most of the other Fighter Geschwaders in Air Fleet 3 show similar strengths of over 30 aircraft per Gruppe.

Apart from that glitch, it's still a great read.  :-bd
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Hwiccee

Quote from: Westmarcher on 16 December 2017, 11:24:37 AM

Apart from that glitch, it's still a great read.  :-bd


I am sure it will be and thanks for the updated info & taking the time to post it.