Should TV mess with history?

Started by Leman, 16 November 2017, 08:46:27 AM

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paulr

While I find them getting simple details, as above, wrong frustrating it is the broader misinformation that I worry about more

An example is the general theme that America won the war (any war they were involved in apparently)

I remember a comment from a US based wargamer and reenactor who was dress as a British soldier at a display to mark an anniversary of D-Day. The response of several visiting the display was, "were the British involved in D-Day"  ~X(

The above involves another more subtle example, "D-Day", there were thousands of D-Days but to the public one in particular is D-Day, and most of them couldn't tell you the actual date or a location much more accurate than France
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Subedai

I have a number of issues with all kinds of cinematic 'history'. Yes, I agree with the fact that for most WWII films of the late 60's and possibly into the early 70's there were not that many German tanks left after the war and Battle of the Bulge had to use whatever M number the tanks really were; I get the fact that they have to spice things up to make it interesting to 90% of the watching population...BUT when they deliberately get things wrong or change FACTUAL things to make it 'interesting' is where I tend to lose it a tad. Case in point -two points actually- Cromwell and U-571: there are others I could mention but these will do. Cromwell is brim-full of fiction almost from start to finish after a supposed ten year research period, and U-571 caused such an outrage over here that whoever made it had to make an apology for misleading people at the end. As far as I am concerned this is a total disregard for history. We have had centuries of interesting stuff happening but sometimes producers and researchers can't even get that right.

And don't get me started on Omar Sharif's Genghis Khan- I had to give up counting the mistakes after finding more than 25 in the first half an hour!

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SV52

With every man and his dog labelled as a 'historian' these days, it ain't gonna improve.  That plus the dumbing down factor.
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Chieftain

For me, the frustration is that pretty much always the actual history is more interesting, bizarre, and exciting than the "dramatised" version we're offered.
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FierceKitty

Quote from: Chieftain on 16 November 2017, 09:34:19 PM
For me, the frustration is that pretty much always the actual history is more interesting, bizarre, and exciting than the "dramatised" version we're offered.

+1
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paulr

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Sandinista

Most of us have knowledge for a particular period that would equate to degree level or better, so Open University or similar programmes may be a better option for us to watch.

The general public to which most of these things are aimed at may vaguely remember something from school, so if whatever they are watching inspires them to read, research on the internet then that is a success.

We as a group will be impossible to satisfy with mainstream programming.

Cheers
Ian


toxicpixie

Christ, we can't even watch wargames programs without someone wincing :D

Although as that might be at the clothes as they're mainly late 70's-early 80's :D
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Westmarcher

17 November 2017, 11:44:47 AM #23 Last Edit: 17 November 2017, 11:48:18 AM by Westmarcher
Whilst it is a bonus if they are presented in an entertaining manner, I think we are all agreed that historical documentaries must be HONEST and educational, based on sound research and factually accurate as far as is reasonably possible.

In the case of TV dramas and movies, whilst we appreciate that the primary focus is on entertainment, ratings and profit, the worry for us history buffs is that the ordinary viewer will take the interwoven fiction as fact. This can sometimes lead to some unfortunate consequences for relations between the people of different nations in the modern world, e.g., The Patriot which portrays an atrocity - burning American civilians alive in a church - that never happened (in the AWI at any rate).  Therefore, in the case of TV dramas and movies, I would like to see more HONESTY.

Where the story deviates from history into fiction, I would therefore like to see TV dramas incorporating the same kind of approach employed by Bernard Cornwell in his Sharpe novels. As fans will know, when the story is concluded, he devotes a chapter to the actual historical background, highlighting where and why he has deviated from fact into fiction in order to enhance the telling of his story. I watched Versailles on Amazon or Now TV but I understand, when first shown on TV (BBC?) that this approach was taken with each episode followed by a short documentary covering this very thing.

I do agree that actual historical events are often more fascinating and entertaining than fiction. For example, take Braveheart - a good movie but wrong in so many ways, i.e., even from the very beginning, "Scotland 1280 AD"-"The King of Scotland has died" - no he hadn't! He didn't die until 1286! For me, the actual story of William Wallace and Robert The Bruce is eminently more interesting and entertaining.

Nevertheless, where I have a basic background knowledge of events, I actually look forward to seeing how the fictitious characters interact with the actual personalities of the period and how they try to weave the fiction in with the fact (e.g., in Outlander where the characters interact with Bonnie Prince Charlie or in Turn: Washington's Spies where important historical characters are integral to the story). Of course, I'm not always satisfied by the results but, sometimes it can bring up some unexpected surprises, especially after further research by myself. For example, in the TV Series, Rome, Vorenus and Pullo are pals.  Now, I used to think they were fictitious characters but, in fact, like Caesar and Pompey, etc. they were also real historical personalities but instead of Vorenus being the officer and Pullo the squaddie, both were actually centurions who are mentioned in Caesar's Gallic Wars and said to have a particular rivalry with each other!
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steve_holmes_11

Quote from: SV52 on 16 November 2017, 09:06:44 PM
With every man and his dog labelled as a 'historian' these days, it ain't gonna improve.  That plus the dumbing down factor.

Ahh yes, who can forget "Dan Snow, a FULL historian with a whole degree in history" (Might have bene Alan Partridge, if not probably that Jonathon Pie chap).


But returning to "Should TV mess with history" - I'm wondering about the motivations for the question.

1. Pesky Doctor Who going back there and interfering.
2. Meddle all you like Television - you'll never compare with Wargamer's ability to mess with history.

SV52

People on here mess about with history, so why not the entertainment industry?  :d
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paulr

Because we know we are messing it about, the entertainment industry and the general public don't  :P ;)
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SV52

Of course they do, they know their audience is all. First mention of a detail the audiencve changes channel which impresses not the advertisers.
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Leman

And the results of not tackling ignorance can be plainly seen in Brexit, Trump and Palestine. Think I'd rather have history not messed with.
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FierceKitty

Quote from: Leman on 17 June 2018, 12:20:56 PM
And the results of not tackling ignorance can be plainly seen in Brexit, Trump and Palestine. Think I'd rather have history not messed with.

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