Current Climate of Wargaming?

Started by Leon, 26 August 2017, 09:09:20 PM

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Sunray

What a mature and serious discussion to conduct whilst sober.  I enjoyed the comments to date.  Thanks for opening the topic Leon.  It reminded me of reading Peter Tanner and his prophecies of doom way back in the 1980s

For six long years (before escaping into the security of academia), I worked in Corporate Counsel in London's square mile.  Our client base was the sport & leisure industry. A lot of big names plus the trade federations.

The start up funding will cause local bubbles but only redistribute the spend within the sector.

Leisure and hobby are markets that depend on disposable income.  The demographic that supports it - and is the target audience - needs to possess such income.  Now in terms of cash outlay it is at the lower end. (Although our wives/partners would probably  dispute this assertion).
I will come back to this disposable income factor as it impacting the entire hobby sector.

Wargaming is a hobby with the twin attractions of (a) modelling/paining and (b) gaming. The first activity is generally solo, the second is a collective act of human agency. You can qualify that in that some clubs paint together and there are some solo wargamers.  A one level, judging from the Q&A on this forum, the Pendraken Forum is at one level a virtual club, serving needs in terms of advice and help that was once the role of the local club.

We are fairly immune from  fashion or "must have". We pick a period (largely determined by availability of figures/scale, we pick our rules, add a green mat, bits and bobs and role the dice.  Games, figures and table can be packed away, although a spare room is bliss.

One of the things Phil/Techno and I have been very aware about is that Korea is not everybody's game, hence the generic approach that with a decent paint job will allow figures to proxy from late WW2 to 1960s.

The demographic customer base is generally aging, but whilst the private pension cohort is around it has the cash to spend, and the time to indulge.  The cohort approaching 50 is generally not as secure and will have less to spend on hobbies.  This will be reflected across the entire hobby and modelling sector.

10mm is in a strong place. 1. Range and quality of figures, 2. proximity to 1/144 ships & aircraft 3. proximity to N gauge.  The detail is amazing on Phil's recent sculpts.


And within 10mm is Pendraken.  Now the clear market leader.  Thanks to generous attitudes over the BKC fiasco you have a solid reputation and generated enormous good will.  The falling pound- whilst cutting margins - could open up the lucrative US market, but a lot depends on agents/distributors.

I would be confident about the future of Pendraken.  Change your packaging to reflect play - ie 4 HMGs, 4 Mortars  NOT 3- and acknowledge the current trend for small scale battle groups ( 4 tanks, 2 armoured cars, 4 APCs/lorries, and a reinforced infantry platoon plus support platoon/A/T unit.) I have now five such groups for BKC period  games.   


fsn

A free figure (even a Pendraken on) would probably not be a draw for me. It's probably a 28mm space marine, and I'm there for 10mm Spartans.

A card making show (don't judge me) that I used to go to would do a draw. Contributers chucked some goodies in and you'd end up with a bag of £200 worth of stuff. One year I won it. Probably the only male in the whole place. Talk about walk of shame.

This though would not work as a suffcint draw with wargaming. You'd end up with a 28mm space marine, some 10mm Gurkhas, fine desert sand and a 15mm Pak36.

No use to man nor Orc.
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

d_Guy

29 August 2017, 03:30:36 PM #47 Last Edit: 29 August 2017, 03:32:24 PM by d_Guy
Catching up on thread reading.

Unless free figures are already painted not much of a draw for me. You already have your starter armies which are a good value.

Terry expresses much of what I would add. I order direct from Europe any product that originates there. Hard on US distributors but much more timely as inventory is at hand or can be quickly spun up.

Good product and excellent customer service are essential for me. (Have just had a bad experience with a manufacture on this side who is not only WAY behind in delivery but almost pathological in not communicating.) While I've had great experiences with manufacturers on both sides of the pond, Pendraken is absolutely top drawer.

Having an active forum where you can quickly get questions answered is another huge plus.

With the exception of his opinion of Aztecs (thanks for jumping to the defense, Kitty  ;) ) I agree with T13A concerning a concentration on core business. Do you have to stay aware of trends in your industry, yes, but you simply can not coast on the development of your core product lines (assuming you're not making typewriter ribbon or some such). Once you've lost the good opinion of your long term (and hopefully high volume ) customers you may as well close the doors.

Sleep with clean hands ...

barbarian

About shows : I think UKs members of this forum don't appreciate enough how lucky they are to have that many shows !
I don't only speak from the pro side of things but how I would like to stroll a weekend in one of those.
The only wargaming club here didn't fit the bills for me (too much competitive play ) so I just don't play anymore.
2015 Painting Competition - Winner!
2018 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

Orcs

Quote from: fsn on 29 August 2017, 03:24:14 PM
This though would not work as a suffcint draw with wargaming. You'd end up with a 28mm space marine, some 10mm Gurkhas, fine desert sand and a 15mm Pak36.

No use to man nor Orc.


Presuming to know what's of use to me now ??



The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. - Robert Louis Stevenson

Orcs

29 August 2017, 03:51:14 PM #50 Last Edit: 29 August 2017, 05:01:49 PM by Orcs
A free figure is no draw to me. Normally it is a period or scale I have no interest in.  I just pass it on if I know some one its useful too.

Shows can be difficult for me to attend due to shifts.  Of late their has been  a lot of duplication trader wise.  when you get 3 of 4 traders all doing 28mm MDF terrain as their main products it does dilute the interest.

I would like to see show organisers actually organising what traders attend and what their products are.  this would benefit the attendees in a wider range of products available and should increase the takings of the traders.  - I am not sure if this is actually viable though.  I know of at least one show where the offer of "freebies" to the  Committee members of the organising club does wonders for what position your stand is in and If you invited to attend at all.

I will happily attend a show to put on a demo game and socialise, I go less now to shop as getting stuff online is so much easier and most of the traders cannot bring all  their stock to the show.  I know you can pre-order, but sometimes seeing  some examples on the stand creates the "Must have some of those" feeling.


The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. - Robert Louis Stevenson

Leon

Quote from: Orcs on 29 August 2017, 03:51:14 PM
I would like to see show organisers actually organising what traders attend and what their products are.  this would benefit the attendees in a wider range of products available and should increase the takings of the traders.  - I am not sure if this is actually viable though.

This is something we've consciously done with Battleground for the same reasons.  We don't operate a 'First come, first served' policy, instead when a space becomes available I pick through the waiting list and find the best trader to suit the show.  This will usually be a manufacturer firstly, or a retailer bringing something different second.  If we'd done it simply in the order of the waiting list, we'd have about 10 second-hand or third-party stockists selling the same stuff, which I think is no use to either the visitors or the traders themselves.
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to over 7000 products, including 4500 items for 10mm wargaming, plus MDF bases, Battlescale buildings, I-94 decals, Litko Gaming Aids, Militia Miniatures, Raiden Miniatures 1/285th aircraft, Red Vectors MDF products, Vallejo paints and much, much more!

petercooman

29 August 2017, 05:24:13 PM #52 Last Edit: 29 August 2017, 05:27:10 PM by petercooman
While I like bringing diversity in the traders, I think it's a hard decision to make.

Take 28mm mdf for example. Look at sarissa precision. Nice buildings, great price, no interior detail whatsoever.

4ground also makes 28 mm mdf, a lot more costly, complete interior detail and pre coloured mdf.

For games with interior movement I would go with 4ground, for things like napoleonics where you have big battalions fighthing around the buildings with almost no movement inside I'd go with sarissa.

Saying they bring the same thing is not always true, but I understand your point. It's a fine line.

I understand the point about retailers though, crisis has a bunch of those and I usually skip past them unless they bring something the others don't have. Last crisis there was one with three racks of reaper bones blisters for example, spent a lot of time picking what I wanted from there!  Also do pre order some times with a board game shop, just because I buy a lot from them and i like saving on the shipping.

Nick the Lemming

My problem (and it's an individual problem with wargaming that I have, you might not agree), is that we're saturated with 28mm skirmish games. Almost everything that comes out these days seems to be yet another 28mm skirmish game.

I have absolutely no interest in 28mm skirmish games. If they become the only thing played at the clubs, then I just don't bother going to the clubs. If everything for sale at cons is 28mm skirmish, then I don't bother going to cons. If all the rules are 28mm skirmish, then I don't bother buying rules. If all the wargaming magazines just show 28mm skirmish games, then I don't bother buying the wargaming magazines.

My spending on wargames this year so far has been less than I used to spend on a monthly basis. I doubt that's going to change much.

I have quite a few projects I'd like to do, but it's going to mean buying all armies for them since either others I know won't buy in in the first place, or like the Waterloo project we were going to do for the anniversary, people buy the figures but don't paint them up because they're too busy with their 28mm skirmish of the week. I'm still the only person in our group that has any Napoleonic 6mm painted up for that project. So if I want to do a 10mm SCW mini-campaign, I'm going to have to buy all the figures and paint them up myself. Getting other people to play isn't that much of a challenge if you can supply everything like that, but it's a) expensive to do so and b) time-consuming to paint everything up yourself.

Leman

I feel your pain Nick. On a positive note, I have just bound my recently bought printed out copies of Basic Impetus 2 (Ancient to Early Renaissance) and From Shako To Coalscuttle (Napoleonic to early WWI). I have also bought into To the Strongest and am looking forward to For King And Parliament - both big battle sets. Further, two relatively recent big battle sets are amongst the best I have ever played, i.e. BBB and Altar of Freedom, both of which are aimed at big historical battles with small scale figures, and both of which knock skirmish games into a cocked hat.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

d_Guy

Quote from: barbarian on 29 August 2017, 03:40:49 PM
About shows : I think UKs members of this forum don't appreciate enough how lucky they are to have that many shows !
I don't only speak from the pro side of things but how I would like to stroll a weekend in one of those.
The only wargaming club here didn't fit the bills for me (too much competitive play ) so I just don't play anymore.

Preach, brother!  :-bd
Sleep with clean hands ...

fsn

Well to quote just about every US muscial from the 1950s -"why don't we do it ourselves? We'll do the show right here."

(Cue song and D_guy tapdancing whilst dressed as a chicken.)

Yes, it's been a long day. 


Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

d_Guy

Well I DO like things that wear feathers - Philistines, Dinosaurs, Aztecs...

I actually did do it here once, along time ago, but now live in a remote area where I am viewed, charitably I think, as "the eccentric that plays with toy soldiers".
Sleep with clean hands ...

Leman

I like feathers as well, but usually on a bunch of C16th gendarmes.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

FierceKitty

I hereby pledge my support to both the immediately previous posters.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.