Organisation of Anti-Tank units attached to 1st Airborne Div at Arnhem

Started by T13A, 21 August 2017, 12:02:53 PM

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T13A

Hi

I'm trying to organise some Arnhem scenarios for when BKC3.1 comes out (is that the correct name?) and am having problems in finding out exactly how the Anti-Tank batteries (1st and 2nd  Air Landing Anti-tank Batteries) that were attached to 1st Para Bde and 4th Para Bde were actually organised, i.e. how many 'troops'' did each battery have, how many 6pdr troops, how many 17pdr troops, how many guns in each troop?

Also how many 6pdrs did each Airlanding Bn have that were integral to the Bn?

I do have a source that mentions that the divisional allocation was a total of 84 x 6pdrs and 16 x 17pdrs but no mention of how they were split up.

Very grateful for any information or pointers.

Cheers Paul
T13A Out!

Dr Dave

no books to hand at the moment, but IIRC:

1st btty:
2 troops of 4x 17 pdr (all are 4 guns)
3.5 troops 6 pdr (hence 14x 6pdr)

2nd btty
2 troops of 17 pdr
3 troops of 6 pdr

All of the AL bttns had 2 troops of 6pdr each.

NOTE: the 6 pdr had APDS, the 17 pdrs did NOT take any APDS ammo to Arnhem, nor was any dropped.

6 pdr tow is a jeep
17 pdr tow is the Morris truck

Universal / Bran carriers CANNOT tow anything - they have no tow bars!

Aksu

Quote from: Dr Dave on 21 August 2017, 05:25:43 PM
Universal / Bran carriers CANNOT tow anything - they have no tow bars!
According to this chap they improvised chains for limited towing of some 6pdrs http://arnhemjim.blogspot.fi/2012/10/the-universal-carriers-of-british.html
Cheers,
Aksu

Dr Dave

Quote from: Aksu on 21 August 2017, 07:19:41 PM
According to this chap they improvised chains for limited towing of some 6pdrs http://arnhemjim.blogspot.fi/2012/10/the-universal-carriers-of-british.html
Cheers,
Aksu

I think that would be very very limited. Only 2 carriers per bttn, and already needed for ammo resupply and casevac - in all of the Arnhem books I've read this seems to be their main use. Plus, jeeps are organic to the batteries, far far more numerous across other units, and intended for the job. 

T13A

Hi

Many thanks for the replies and information.

I must have at least a dozen books on Arnhem on my shelves but not the info. I wanted. Dr Dave where do you get your information?

Just one other thing, I am assuming that one base (unit) in BKC terms would represent one 4 gun troop, is that the way you would do it?

Many thanks again,

Paul



T13A Out!

Dr Dave

I'm a lucky chap - every year work send me to Arnhem for a week!  :D

There's a mob called the Arnhem battle study group and they often release small booklets on niche subjects: 17 pdr at Arnhem, jeeps at Arnhem, British Airborne forces at Arnhem... These end up in the gift shop in the Hartenstein Museum. They're a bit pricey for the format (~£5-10) but good sources none the less. These booklets rotate every year, so one year its "jeeps", next year it'll be a list of ALL the Polish troops who served there (mad stuff!) They also stock quite a few glossy "vanity publishing" books... I've learnt to buy them in the shop an NOT wait and see how much they are on Amazon in the UK. £40 in the shop, means £80+ in the UK or simply NLA!

T13A

Hi Dr Dave

Yes, that sounds pretty lucky to me! I just managed a long weekend back in 1974 when I was spending a few years across the border in Munster.......

That said, just back from a week in Normandy, where I have been several times.

Anyway thanks again.

Cheers Paul
T13A Out!

paulr

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Dr Dave

Whenever work has sent me anywhere I've always checked to make sure admin have dumped me in the right town, they used to send us to a real dump of a place, a commuter town for Den Haag. Then I pointed out that we were visiting two sites and Arnhem was 1/2 way between them. That was 9 years ago. This year will actually be my 10th visit to Arnhem-Oosterbeek!   :D


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holdfast

I seem to recall that part of the miracle of staff planning that produced Arnhem, the Polish Para Brigade's anti tank company was landed on Day 1 with everyone else north of the river, together with the Polish Para Brigade Recce.
The rest of the Brigade landed days later south of the river and the never linked up.
So you can consider having a Polish Company that essentially speaks no english, cheek by jowl with english and scottish units. One of the results was that the Poles suffered from blue on blue.

Dr Dave

Oooooh, that's a goiod point. I think it's the Tuesday pm lift that brings them in on a different D/LZ and close to town, but it is an opposed landing and they fair quite badly just getting themselves sorted out.

fred.

Yes the Polish support units landed by glider north of the river - definately wasn't day one, but was 2nd or 3rd lift, long before the rest of the Poles landed by Parachute south of the river.

It was a landing into a very hot LZ, and they suffered a lot of casualties early on.

Some of the Poles landed south of the river did cross to Osterbeek - so there were eventually quite a lot of Poles in the Cauldron, but as you note there were a lot of language  problems.
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Dr Dave

The activities of the Polish support chaps north of the river is often forgotten - alas. Geoffrey Powell's utterly wonderful book "Men at Arnhem" includes his eyewitness account of their landing... not good.  :(

holdfast