British Airborne - Universal carrier towing

Started by Dr Dave, 28 July 2017, 08:48:23 AM

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Dr Dave

I've often pondered getting an Airborne British force and I was recently reading the BKCII and III lists. In both lists the British carrier can tow a gun - but unfortunately it couldn't and was never used for this. It doesn't have a tow bar fitted. That's how they crammed 2 into a Hamilcar glider. Don't know if it's too late to get this into the BKCIII revisions.

fsn

Genuinely a bit confused. Could you expand on your post?


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fsn

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fsn

In summary. Although I don't think the British Airborne ever used carriers to pull artillery, I don't think they couldn't. To me would be a waste of weight, when you could get a jeep to do the same job.


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petercooman

from: http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/universal_carrier.php

Evolution: The Mk.II

The Mk.II tankettes were the production version of the many "Carriers" which were built from 1935 to 1940. This standard version had a square gallery and was versatile enough to accommodate all kind of military payloads easily.

They were always equipped with a towing device. The Mk.II was the most heavily produced, from 1940 to 1945, in Great Britain, in the Commonwealth and Canada under various licenses. Their speed and agility, but most of all, tremendous versatility, became legendary, despite their lack of armor and weaponry.

Infantry battalions were given 10 to 33 of these from 1940 to 1943 and motorized artillery battalions were entirely equipped with these vehicles, each carrying an ordinance antitank QF 6pdr (2.24 in/57 mm) gun.

fsn

28 July 2017, 09:33:12 AM #5 Last Edit: 28 July 2017, 09:40:05 AM by fsn
For your 17pdr the Morris Commercial C8AT


6pdr would be a Jeep
https://paradata.org.uk/content/ordnance-quick-firing-6-pounder
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petercooman

28 July 2017, 09:35:04 AM #6 Last Edit: 28 July 2017, 09:38:10 AM by petercooman
but found this about the airborne carriers:

From a source: "A sharp eye will pick up the fact that in the model the lower rear armoured plate was retained to facilitate providing a pintle which allows towing of a trailer or artillery piece, unlike the actual airborne carrier which used an improvised heavy chain fitting for this function"



the rear armour plate was indeed removed from the airborne versions, but as seen in the picture there are 'hooks' attached to the upper rear armour plate.


I think it's safe to say that with a little improvisation you could tow something  :)

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Most if not all carriers were fitted with a tow hitch. They were not supposed to be used to tow the 6pdr, that was done by the Loyd, and airborne guns were supposed to use jeeps. Both the carrier and jeep would be somewhat under-powered to tow the 6pdr.

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Dr Dave

28 July 2017, 03:22:34 PM #8 Last Edit: 28 July 2017, 05:04:07 PM by Dr Dave
I'm referring to carriers delivered by Hamilcar glider - as used by the Parachute and the glider borne battalions of the British Airborne divisions only. In order for these carriers to fit into the glider the tow bar was removed. Hence they couldn't pull the skin off a custard!

Petercooman's picture is spot on. Those hooks are for recovering towing - not towing a gun.

In the Airborne units it's jeeps for the 6pdrs and 75mm; and then trucks for the 17 pdr. Also, remember that a parachute bttn only had 2 carriers anyway that invariably were used for ammo resuplly and casualty evacuation - never for much else.

All of the above pictures confirm this. The picture of the "Airborne" carrier with the Vickers gun is actually a MG carrier but the crew have acquired RAC helmets. Take a closer look at the chin strap - not Airborne. Also the AoS number looks to be 64? That's from a MG unit of an infantry or armoured division, hence the MG mount. Again, not Airborne. In Chamberlain's "Making tracks - the British carrier story" there are similar pictures of infantry carrier crew with RAC helmets.

I think it's easy for this piece of info on the lack of a tow point to slip through the cracks when we're considering such a small number of vehicles.

Check out this link:

http://arnhemjim.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/the-universal-carriers-of-british.html

Scroll down to pictures of the South Staffs carriers on the Utrechtsweg - no tow bars.

fred.

With the very low numbers of carriers in airborne divisions and their primarily logistical roles, there is an argument that they shouldn't even be in the BKC lists. These lists focus on the typical front line combat troops.
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Dr Dave

Quote from: fred. on 28 July 2017, 10:28:26 PM
...they shouldn't even be in the BKC lists. These lists focus on the typical front line combat troops.

I think that you're right.

I might get one for a command base?

sediment

Jeeps tow all my airborne 6pdrs and 75mm howitzers.  Not sure where to go for the cut down Morris tows though (in 6mm for me).  Carriers are a waste of points for an airborne army.  Not enough armour, even on the Tetrachs and Locusts, to be effective in attack and near useless on the defence, compared to a jeep towed 6pdr.

Cheers, Andy