possible ECW project using Baroque

Started by paulr, 25 July 2017, 01:22:33 AM

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paulr

Lord Lensman of Wellington
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GrumpyOldMan

Quote from: d_Guy on 06 September 2017, 04:19:44 PM
Which is the better work for quotes, "Holy Grail" or "Life of Brian"?

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I'm not.

fsn

07 September 2017, 07:29:28 AM #77 Last Edit: 07 September 2017, 07:45:35 AM by fsn
Quote from: mollinary on 06 September 2017, 06:16:25 PM
Any space behind that Sanger, fsn?

Sorry, did I say sanger? I meant sangria. Sure. Pull up a glass and settle in.
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

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Zippee

Quote from: toxicpixie on 06 September 2017, 04:57:23 PM
Or solvent?! Sounds like you're single handedly keeping the lead business afloat :D

Sadly my lead boats keep sinking - lead's not good at floating it seems  :P

Zippee

07 September 2017, 10:02:28 AM #79 Last Edit: 07 September 2017, 10:04:06 AM by Zippee
Quote from: toxicpixie on 06 September 2017, 06:04:02 PM
I did four years worth of Tudor era history. Not sure I disagree with that assessment :D

For my money, whilst no one comes out well, Richard gets a very bad press for nothing more than propaganda purposes. It was Henry wot likely done the blag!

Yeah I did the same period at UNI - I was particularly impressed how the second year special subject title changed from "Richard III and the succession crisis" when I signed up for it to "Richard III and his Usurpation of the Crown" by the time term started. That caused a few heated debates but the bigot of a lecturer was well and truly pinned to the Tudor's as saviour's of the Realm nonsense.  ;D

No one comes out well by modern ethical standards but the murder of the princes was far from the most heinous act under the Plantagenets and there is precedence for similar actions all the way back to Alfred. Richard just gets a special mention in the Big Black Tudor Book of Plantagenet Crime. If Henry hadn't been so desperate to cement some kind of legitimacy to his usurpation then the matter would probably be all but lost from the historical record instead of some bleak highlight of infamous treachery.

But the Tudor dynasty is a string of disasters - just happens to be fronted by possibly the most famous king we have (famous for being a duplicitous philanderer - these days we'd call him Boris and send him to the FO) and even the success of Elizabeth (mostly due to advisors like Cecil and others in reality) failed in the production of an heir and overall the position of England as a political power in Europe slipped backwards - salvaged only by nibbling away at Spain's success in the New World, something that would only really start to bring real wealth under the Stuarts. Tudors, my vote for the least successful dynasty we've ever had - but the one best served by its propaganda machine.

FierceKitty

Well, at least English began generating literature worth reading!
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toxicpixie

Quote from: mollinary on 06 September 2017, 07:49:20 PM
Well, given they disappeared, I think we have to try and pin it on  someone. I  prefer the first suspect with both the motive and opportunity myself!

Henry has double the motive, and may well have had the means...

All the rumours of their possible death under Richard start and end with Henry Tudors doctor, who was coincidentally the last person to probably have seen them, and passed the "information" to Mancini to write the propaganda sheet that justified French intervention on Henry's part to seize the throne... with them alive, Henry has no justification for an invasion, let alone one justification for enough foreign support to succeed; he needs both the Princes AND Richard out the way so it's very much in his interest for them to disappear (preferably in murky enough circumstances to cast massive doubt on Richard), and he certainly appears to have had people in place to achieve this.

Assuming the good doctor (or other agent, there's no shortage of side switching treachery all through the period) didn't finish them off early, Tyrell may well have knocked them off 1486 under Henry's direction not Richards :D

Ofc there's actually no evidence for anyone murdering them at all, and as Zippee says if it wasn't for the Tudor propaganda machine it'd likely just be written off as an "eh, whatever, we dunno" but it's used a linchpin of the regime change, so it's the c15th equivalent of 45 minute WMD's :D

QuoteFSN - Sadly my lead boats keep sinking - lead's not good at floating it seems

You just need more lead, eventually one will float, I'm sure of it.
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Quote from: toxicpixie on 07 September 2017, 11:51:34 AM
You just need more lead, eventually one will float, I'm sure of it.

Or turn into gold, either equally likely.
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toxicpixie

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Zippee

Quote from: ianrs54 on 07 September 2017, 12:51:56 PM
Or turn into gold, either equally likely.

well if they keep sinking in the same place - eventually one will not be able to sink I guess.

if they turn to gold I guess we just change rules and start a Pulp game based on Bear Island

just to be clear this was 'turn to gold AND sink' wasn't it?

toxicpixie

I built my battleship on a swamp, and it sank. Do I built another, and it sank. I built a third, it capsized and then sank. But the fourth battleship stayed afloat! And that's what you get, strongest battleship in England!
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d_Guy

Have you considered the 4th is resting on the other three?
Sleep with clean hands ...

toxicpixie

If I see further, I stand on the shoulders of battleships come before?
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paulr

Making sure this thread 'stays in the room' ;)

We played the first half of our group test game of Baroque last night
There was much laughter and banter during the game which is always a good sign :)

The horse on both wings have clashed and both sides left wings are in trouble X_X
The infantry centers are still slowly advancing, the forces of the King had initially held back between two gentle hills but are now moving up to support their horse

I was umpiring and commanding the Parliamentary right wing. I made a couple of rules mistakes :-[

  • units firing should always roll at least 1 dice so the Parliamentary artillery missed out on one roll
  • ranges are measured from the center of the firing unit, not nearest point, one unit of P&M got a bit better opportunity fire into some passing Trotters

I have a couple of questions for the more experienced Baroque players.

1. One of the Royalist Galloper units charged a unit of my Reiters which passed its test and bravely counter charged. As expected my Reiters lost the melee and retreated straight back (not directly away from the Gallopers which were at a slight angle and offset). The Gallopers pursued toward the centre of my retreated Reiters but because of the offset they contacted a different unit of Reiters and promptly beat them in melee. The new unit of Reiters retreated and ended up further back than the first unit of Reiters.

When the Gallopers pursued again they contacted the first unit of Reiters and a third melee was fought. The Gallopers had taken some hits in the previous melees and my Reiters rolled well and the Gallopers rolled badly on their cohesion test and were eliminated.

Did we get this right? It seems to model the loss of control of Royalist horse but seems a little strange to those us used to one round of melee per turn :-\

2. We used the 'Preparing Terrain' rules to set up terrain and we all noticed two things:

  • there was very little terrain; a couple of gentle hills and a 4BU length of hedge, although this may have been historic
  • the 'second' player could move most of the terrain around, he had rolled a 4
How have others found the 'Preparing Terrain' rules
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Zippee

Quote from: paulr on 16 September 2017, 10:09:57 PM
Making sure this thread 'stays in the room' ;)

Good luck with that  :D

Quote from: paulr on 16 September 2017, 10:09:57 PM
We played the first half of our group test game of Baroque last night
There was much laughter and banter during the game which is always a good sign :)

Sounds like a good first game - regardless of rules. Never worry about getting all the rules right, it's the flavour and general process that's important.

Quote from: paulr on 16 September 2017, 10:09:57 PM
1. One of the Royalist Galloper units charged a unit of my Reiters which passed its test and bravely counter charged. As expected my Reiters lost the melee and retreated straight back (not directly away from the Gallopers which were at a slight angle and offset). The Gallopers pursued toward the centre of my retreated Reiters but because of the offset they contacted a different unit of Reiters and promptly beat them in melee. The new unit of Reiters retreated and ended up further back than the first unit of Reiters.

When the Gallopers pursued again they contacted the first unit of Reiters and a third melee was fought. The Gallopers had taken some hits in the previous melees and my Reiters rolled well and the Gallopers rolled badly on their cohesion test and were eliminated.

Did we get this right? It seems to model the loss of control of Royalist horse but seems a little strange to those us used to one round of melee per turn :-

Hard to be certain of the details (especially the direction of retreat) but in essence that sounds right. You complete all the actions and resulting pursuits and melees of one unit. I suspect the GA rolled badly on the third combat, more likely would be to be ground to a halt by the RE. Actually that is more likely against TR, against RE  the GA were unlucky not to just sweep them away  ;D

Quote from: paulr on 16 September 2017, 10:09:57 PM
2. We used the 'Preparing Terrain' rules to set up terrain and we all noticed two things:

  • there was very little terrain; a couple of gentle hills and a 4BU length of hedge, although this may have been historic
  • the 'second' player could move most of the terrain around, he had rolled a 4
How have others found the 'Preparing Terrain' rules

Never used them - they're a tournament tool so of little interest to me. That said not much terrain and what there is mostly to the flank is right for most ECW actions I think.