Prussian Horse Artillery 1870

Started by Oat, 29 June 2017, 05:08:40 AM

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Oat

Good Evening Everyone,

I'm hoping someone out there could help me with a little mental academic conundrum I'm experiencing. Currently I'm over 4000 km away from my library which might have been able to answer this. Stupid contract work keeping me from my library.  :P But I cannot for the life of me remember how the crew of Prussian horse artillery rode into battle. I know their foot counterparts rode on the axle seats and limber box. Then there were the horse drivers (for lack of a better term) that rode in the off-horse to steer the limber. So did the horse artillery do the same, or did the gunners ride on the other set of limber horses and the limber box?

Thanks for any help, and listing of sources is always enjoyed and appreciated.

Patrick

mollinary

29 June 2017, 07:55:31 AM #1 Last Edit: 29 June 2017, 08:32:23 AM by mollinary
Hi Oat,

Here is my starter for 10! Source is W.Witte, Die Gezogenen Feldgeschutze C/61, C64 und C/64/67 1870/71. He was a Captain in the Guard Field Artillery, and wrote in 1867.  It outlines the constituent parts of a foot and a horse battery as follows:

Foot battery:  3 Officers, 19 NCOs, 2 Trumpeters, 186 men, 6 guns, 57 Horses.

Horse Battery: 3 Officers, 17 NCOs, 2 Trumpeters, 120 men, 6 guns, 107 Horses.

You will note only two thirds the number of men, while nearly twice the number of horses. I think the answer is pretty clear. The extra men rode.

Secondly, in an earlier debate, I recall finding  a detailed two part article (I think in an early Wargames Illustrated) on the Prussian Artillery of the Franco-Prussian War. In this it stated that the Horse Artillery did not have axle seats on their 4 pounders. I will try and look it out to confirm.

Mollinary
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mollinary

Hi Oat,

The earlier thread was entitled Prussian Artillery 1866 and began in August 2015, rambling on for five pages. The statement that the horse artillery 4 pounders did not have axle seats comes from an Article by Mike Tomczak in Wargames Illustrated No 14, October 1988,  under a picture of a diagram of a foot artillery 4 pounder carriage, taken from Witte, cited above.  Hope that helps,

Mollinary
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Duke Speedy of Leighton

Brilliant Mollinary, knew you would have the answer a lot quicker (and better) than I ever could); that's why I didn't chip in, sometimes you need a master on the subject!   8)
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cameronian

The gun bounces too extravagantly at even a fast trot for men to stay on board, 30 secs into this clip shows a gun almost going over https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPl5uzFGiao over a very low hurdle at a hand canter, TBH I wouldn't want a limber seat either. My opinion, for what its worth, as someone who actually served in a mounted battery of horse artillery, is that - despite 'one offs' and 'show offs' - like jumping an entire team, gun, limber and all, over a low wall, the idea that Horse Artillery could really mimic cavalry in the field ie cross country at a fast canter/gallop, is baloney. There is no way limber riders could stay on board, they'd be chucked off and under the wheels/hooves in no time. Horse Artillery would be able to keep up with cavalry on the march but unless, like the British, the entire crew were individually mounted, they would lag somewhat in the field. Just my three ha'pence.
Don't buy your daughters a pony, buy them heroin instead, its cheaper and ultimately less addictive.

Oat

Thanks everyone,

I've got that same book at home, but with no digital copy I was at a loss. So I appreciate all the help! Now I can put my mind to rest haha

That video, if you look carefully you'll notice that there's a little ramp that helps launch the carriage over the hedge. Somehow I think in india and wherever else they were planning on deploying like that that they wouldn't be so lucky to have ramp assistance.

I also found this video. It's totally silent but also helps illustrate the sheer number of men and horses involved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0X7CfNBsq4 close to the 3 min mark you can see them all moving into position, dismounting and doing everything that needs doing.

Thanks everyone! :)

Leman

Pretty good video that one. A horse artillery battery has a massive footprint.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

holdfast

Hi Cam,
I had this half remembered idea that you were the Vet not the No 2 on the limber.

cameronian

I was waiting for you  ;) Yes, battery VO, also accomplished rider of centre and wheel gun horses (never good enough to ride the lead) not to mention my charger, my eventer and my point to pointer (OK, all the same horse but who's counting). All officers were expected to have a good working knowledge of the whole draught process, I found it fascinating, so much more to it than you would expect - not like putting up a bloody bridge which as 'any fule kno' - is a piece of piss in comparison.

Ubique RHA - everywhere
Ubique - RE - all over the place 

Yours in amity  ;D
Don't buy your daughters a pony, buy them heroin instead, its cheaper and ultimately less addictive.

Duke Speedy of Leighton

You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

holdfast

Couldn't find the Motto for the RAVC but I did note that the Regimental March was 'Drink, puppy, drink'. I am sure it wasn't referring to you though, Cam.

fsn

"Strength in Diversity", I think.   :-B
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

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Leman

Wasn't it the Labour Party that thought it would be a great idea to get 50% of young people into diversity, or was that financial adversity. Anyway, seems you now need a degree to answer a telephone or book someone into a hotel - well there was never going to be a time when 50% of the work force would be doctors, lawyers, nuclear physicists, civil engineers etc. After all someone has to pick the fruit and veg - oh yeah, that workforce is scuppered now. You couldn't make it up.
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cameronian

07 July 2017, 01:12:32 PM #13 Last Edit: 07 July 2017, 02:18:49 PM by cameronian
Yes you're right, 'Drink Puppy Drink', old hunting song, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPGskvKaKQI very un - PC, don't think young officers even hunt nowadays which is worrying, if they can't blow a hunting horn how on earth will they hold the bridge at Arnhem  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfv-19f8ZG8

3mins 35 secs in

BTW our motto is 'Potius quam sanguinum, cujus fabrum'  tanslate 'more than' as 'better than' I'm sure you'll agree  :D
Don't buy your daughters a pony, buy them heroin instead, its cheaper and ultimately less addictive.