Air superiorty - vintage fighters v more modern trainers

Started by Sunray, 07 June 2017, 09:20:18 AM

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Sunray

With the anticipated launch of Pendraken Korean range, my family (well my son and I- with other turning up for a game) are planning the Mother of all Bush wars.  East African states of North & South Coryria over the disputed province of Zembala (of Wild Geese fame). Circa 1969-70

As we speak large numbers of Pendraken, Time Cast, Minifigs and Irregular figures are being sourced and painted.

Now, its a low tech war - lots of WW2 kit, so BKC 2 with a few tweaks.  Air superiority begins with North Coryrian forces - Soviet/WP client state
The opening COIN war in Zembala they use Aero Delfin L-29

The South Coryian Arms Mission have a dice decided mission to recruit ground crew/pilots/aircraft. 

When we looked at what was out there in the late 1960s we find :

Mustangs, Thunderbolts, HA-112s (Me-109 with Merlin engine) and obsolete jets like Meteor.

Question to all you Air war buffs - A Mustang or a Meteor with an experience mercenary pilot meets a Delfin ?   Dice will decide - but who should get the +1 ?   

Who rules the skys over Zembala ?


Duke Speedy of Leighton

I would use A&A Games Engineering rules called 'Scramble' as it features all those planes.
Going by the Football War of 1969, experience wins over shiny kit!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Sunray

Sounds useful, the Football war and Biafra are what inspired the discussion (merc Lynn Garrison flew in both) 

The Biafra Air Force started out with  B25 & Invader. The Nigerian had only helicopters until a Mission secured MiG 15, 17 and II-28 bombers.

Even with NAF air superiority, the BAF staged a raid with Malmo MFI-9s and destroyed quite a few Mig 17s and II-28s on the ground.

As outlined above, I don't want to get into a complex airwar game a few inches above the table.  I want the dogfights decided off table  and superiority - the freedom of use of ground attack - well settled  prior to each game phase.

If the Reds start with the Delfins and superiority. The Blues by phase 2 acquire a Meteor, by phase 3 they have mercenary pilot/crew - will they then have air superiority in that phase .....until the Reds get MiGs ? 

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Will the football war involved  F4U Corsairs and Caviler Mustangs - not exactly hi tech. In Korea a Sea Fury bagged a MiG 15, and in Vietnam a Skyraider go a 17. Both were though to be extreme luck, although  the better quality of pilots was thought to be a factor. Normally the faster aircraft will be able to disengage, but a fighter capable of high subsonic speed is able to hold with a supersonic one, as dogfights are not fought at speeds much above mach 0.9, the pilots pass out with g force otherwise.
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Sunray

Looking at the spec of the Meteor V Delfin . Assuming indigenous pilot in Delfin v experienced Merc, I am minded to award the WW2 jet  a +2 .

So if the Blue Airforce secures a Meteor and vet pilot I will do the dice on this basis.

However, the old kite will need a dice roll  prior to every requested mission- including CAP. This will reflect the spares problem with vintage kit in a bush war far from home.  If she can't get airborne, the Delfin will rule the skys.

The amateur nature of the ground forces will also limit FAC to professional units.- unless scheduled attacks.

Now, I need a rule(s) for the MF1-9 style Biafra commando raid which took advantage of very experienced pilots and the fact that the enemy had no radar & very little AA.

I don't like the complications of airwar taking over - but God they make great eye candy - so a little rule making and dice rolling  is worth it  :)

GrumpyOldMan

Hello Sunray

Back from my travels and ready to put my tuppence on the table. I'd go with the ex-fighters over the Delfin. However I like your idea on the reliability of old kit/kite.

There's nothing wrong with eye candy :D.

Speaking of eye candy, you may be interested in a book I picked up in Lviv of all places:-



Maybe you can combine the air and water eye candy and have sensory overload :D

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

Sunray

Hi Vic ! Missed your on the forum mate.  Glad to see you back.  :-bd

I "invented" the reliability rule some years ago, in a bush war scenario when Red Force with Saladin A/Cs   encountered a Blue Force with a Churchill.

This was in 15mm with AK47 "blood & thunder" rules, but I put the idea in my pocket. 

Now you are back on duty, Master Scrounger - apart from the Bird dog, any piston small aircraft out there?

And yes, I have a Bush War brown waters navy. Practically all scratch built.

pierre the shy

Here's a bit of fanciful "dogfighting" using the Aero L-39 Albatros to get you in the mood. It was designed during the 1960s as a replacement for the Aero L-29 DelfĂ­n.

https://youtu.be/k6y3lwwokg4

Enjoy it for what it is ;)
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are.

Sunray

Ah...Tomorrow never dies.

Yeah - a good advert for the Aero L-39 - even if styled as a MiG !

The Czechs offered them to the Ireland after 9/11 - the Irish Air Corps only have piston trainers (Pilatus). It was a buy 2 get 1 free deal.

But the Irish were broke, so asked the UK Government to task the RAF to defend Irish Airspace.  I supposed to be a State Secret.  ;D ;D ;D


In 2015 the RAF  scrambled from Lossiemouth and intercepted a brace of Russian "Bears" bound for the Shannon. A lot of covert US kit was parked on then ramp at the time. The Bears turned and headed towards Cuba.

Sunray

I received my F toys Meteor this morning.  What a detailed little gem it is.  Its now sporting a mean payload of 4" rockets

What I really like is the ball joint on the stand. This allows the aircraft to be tilted to an angle. I use the DropZone stands, so glued the ball joint to the top of the rod.

Looks neat, and its eye candy to see the Meteor bank into an attack.

-1 to any opponent ! :)